Cursing the government does not fix potholes. Spray-painting them does
70 points
1 hour ago
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dacops
43 minutes ago
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I look around and see work that needs doing all the time. Potholes, park maintenance, housing shortages, pollution. As long as we're have unsatisfied needs, there's work to be done. I also see unemployment.

What kind of system has work to be done but not enough jobs... it's a world where work is not focused on satisfying our needs but rather focused on maximizing profit. As long as we're choosing to make work about making someone else wealthy rather than satisfying all our needs, we'll never have enough jobs to get the work done.

Potholes are a visible manifestation of society saying it's more efficient to prioritize capital than care.

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radialstub
16 minutes ago
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> Potholes are a visible manifestation of society saying it's more efficient to prioritize capital than care.

How though. Roads are a public good and fixing them should come from the governments pocket. How can you say the problem is private industry, when the government is doing such a good job collecting our tax money. You should be asking where is that money going. And then you will see its because of mismanagement by the government. Trillions in debt, for what?

Potholes are a visible manifestation of society saying it's better to vote for people who vibe with you, than people who can provide essential services.

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wongarsu
56 seconds ago
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You are assuming that the obsession with maximizing profit is limited to private industry, where the post you are replying to makes no such assumption.

I agree that the government ought to work for the public good, and not doing so is mismanagement and corruption. But following the logic of the parent poster, the postulate would be that the mismatch between what the government ought to do and what it does is an outgrowth of a society that values maximizing profit over satisfying needs. Which I find hard to deny if we are a bit flexible with the question "whose profit is maximized". This is just a different way to arrive at the word corruption, but it provides a frame for possible societal causes for that widespread corruption

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mmooss
4 minutes ago
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The tax rates in the US are low; that's why there is so much debt and so few services.

Anti-tax groups have long followed the 'Starve the Beast' strategy (and their opponents are completely incompetent and fall for it every time):

  1) Cut taxes
  2) Point out the resulting deficit, say we're spending 
     too much, and cut services
  3) Repeat
Now we're at point 2. It's not spending, it's lack of revenue. Some large corporations pay no tax. The US has cut IRS enforcement even though it pays for itself many, many times over. The wealthiest people pay a much lower tax rate because their typical form of income (capital gains) is taxed at a much lower rate than other people's (salary), and because their taxes are cut over and over and they have endless loopholes - e.g., trust funds!
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pc86
5 minutes ago
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How many of those unemployed people want to get a job filling potholes, or mowing the lawn at the park? How many are qualified to do anything about pollution in whatever specific sense you mean? What job does your average unemployed person get to "fight housing shortages" or whatever you're trying to say?

> What kind of system has work to be done but not enough jobs

Any system that isn't designed from the outside? Any system that's goal is not simply maximizing employment? Surely you can imagine a scenario with two civilizations, one has 99% employment, one has 80% employment, but the people in the 99% employed society are, on average, worse off?

> As long as we're choosing to make work about making someone else wealthy rather than satisfying all our needs

Most people would not say the number of potholes they encounter or the level of park maintenance is so poor that their needs aren't being met.

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mmooss
9 minutes ago
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> What kind of system has work to be done but not enough jobs

A system where citizens complain about potholes but don't want to chip in to pay people to fix them - that is, they won't pay the taxes necessary. I've seen some very clean, well-financed, high-tax places in the world.

That's just one part of this issue but it's a necesssary one. And before you say, 'government just wastes money', I say, 'that's just an meaningless talking point against chipping in.' First, everyone and every organization wastes money; larger organizations have both much more power to do things but more inefficiencies, unavoidably - that applies to large software companies too. Government inefficiency can be dealt with if we want to do it; if you don't pay attention and don't vote, others will be very happy to do without you.

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robomartin
6 minutes ago
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> Potholes, park maintenance, housing shortages, pollution. As long as we're have unsatisfied needs, there's work to be done. I also see unemployment.

Stop voting for the people who have consistently allowed this to happen. We give them a tremendous amount of money. They misallocate it, waste it and allow fraud to happen to the tune of billions.

This has nothing to do with this communist/socialist view of the world that I see emanate from your comment. This is plain and simple: Government incompetence, fraud and theft.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with private industry.

This also has nothing whatsoever to do with unemployment rate. You are not going to take a 57 year old bank teller who was let go and put her to work fixing potholes on the highway.

And the connection to maximizing profits is even funnier. Do you realize that a company that maximizes profits pays more taxes? Do you realize that a person who maximizes profits through higher salaries or investments pays more taxes? Which means that the government has more money to allocate towards fixing the problems you noted?

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pc86
30 seconds ago
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No but you don't understand they're on the right team so I have to vote for them.
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warumdarum
51 seconds ago
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But socialist culture leads to corruption repeatetly in all socities where the experiment is run ?
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vlovich123
36 minutes ago
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Or we’ve invested far too much money in building a road network and the economic value from it either isn’t captured to sustain it OR it’s insufficient to cover costs and it’s being subsidized. Potholes being a “need” to be fixed is an interesting take when we had cobble streets and people survived fine. Pretending like capitalism is the thing that creates economic tradeoffs is incorrect and it’s just scapegoating capitalism - of course every economic system will have problems, but potholes are not uniquely a capitalism problem but more a problem of maintenance after huge capital investments for building infrastructure - maintenance is always harder and a debt that previous generations saddled us by building said infrastructure and that’s true whatever economic model you follow. China will have a similar problem in ~100-200 years as the cost to maintain all the roads, power plants, and buildings start to become a reality.
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smallmancontrov
34 minutes ago
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It's funny how the "hard choices" fingerwagging never comes out to scold the parts of the economy where rich people get paid for being rich in proportion to how rich they are, and it's such a dogmatic article of faith that the gross excess over there couldn't possibly have anything to do with the deprivation over here.
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harpiaharpyja
25 minutes ago
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Equally dogmatic take. A lot of scarcity is artificial.
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smallmancontrov
7 minutes ago
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Yep. Move all the money into the capital economy and all the taxes into the labor economy and whoops! The well ran dry! Better cut social programs, nothing else to be done, no sir!
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CodingJeebus
12 minutes ago
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> Potholes being a “need” to be fixed is an interesting take when we had cobble streets and people survived fine.

Have you ever driven on a cobblestone street? There are a few in the city where I grew up and it's pretty obvious why we don't build that way anymore. It's like driving on an uneven dirt road, you're lucky to get above 25MPH consistently lest you want to risk damaging your car.

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dacops
28 minutes ago
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I mean, I don't disagree with you. But potholes are a stand in for infrastructure repair. I bike everywhere, my bike lanes and paths have holes. Water systems still dump lead, electricity and broadband networks aren't resilient. Potholes are just visible failures we can just to analogize.

Don't get too locked in on the specific.

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card_zero
12 minutes ago
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Profit isn't exactly the problem here. We could pay people to fix various kinds of infrastructure, they could make big profits, that would be great - if only they existed and had figured out their business plans.
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esseph
21 minutes ago
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> Potholes being a “need” to be fixed is an interesting take when we had cobble streets and people survived fine.

Nobody was going 55-75mph+ with multi-thousand pound vehicles on cobblestone streets.

Potholes lead to vehicle damage, property damage and death.

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c6r87i
23 minutes ago
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The mistake was made but the entrenched interests of unrestrained capitalism ensure that a new direction will never be pursued.
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ikesau
54 minutes ago
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My model of municipal maintenance is that a city's road maintenance workers have a long list of known potholes to fix which is triaged with some formula and dealt with day-by-day.

Spraypainting the pothole distorts the triage process and makes a pothole jump the queue, putting it ahead of more severe or older issues than it otherwise would have been.

It might not be zero sum, if it causes the agency to act with more haste to avoid embarrassment, but it seems like it could be close? Plus it probably takes more resources to clean up the spraypaint afterwards.

Most road maintenance crews probably aren't sitting around with abundant materials and machinery neglecting their duties, so I guess I just have some questions about what the real cost of this tactic is. What's giving.

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dandellion
35 minutes ago
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If we're making stuff up with no basis, I'll go with it distorts the process by bringing attention to and prioritising the potholes that bother people enough to make the effort of painting them. But really I think most municipalities are not as good at planning as you give them credit for.
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rfrey
42 minutes ago
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Although if a big pothole remains for several years amid many complaints, it's reasonable to think there's no such list. Or there is a list, but it's so long that it might as well not exist.
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functionmouse
12 minutes ago
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> My model of municipal maintenance is that a city's road maintenance workers have a long list of known potholes to fix which is triaged with some formula and dealt with day-by-day.

What makes you think that?

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ikesau
5 minutes ago
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I see road workers repairing potholes, and otherwise notice that potholes get repaired over time.

Presumably there is an intelligent process that leads to this. What alternative is there?

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fwipsy
8 minutes ago
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I'm sure it depends on the city. I reported several large potholes in my city via an online form, and was disappointed to see them unrepaired for several months. Then one day I came and found that they'd repaved the whole street for 50m.
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gniv
38 minutes ago
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> Most road maintenance crews probably aren't sitting around

Assuming that's true, the most likely explanation is that they are working on Big Projects. Pothole maintenance is (probably) behind these projects, even though it can be done without affecting their timeline.

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cucumber3732842
34 minutes ago
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Big projects are almost always contracted out. The maintenance crews maintain. Sometimes they do a little pre/post work for the big projects but mostly they maintain stuff.
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peddling-brink
42 minutes ago
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I don’t imagine all government work has been perfectly prioritized on a well calibrated sliding scale.
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adampunk
42 minutes ago
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Citizens should have a say in how municipalities order work. If they're not given that say through less-disruptive means, then they can choose to harmlessly tag places where maintenance is failing.

Why are we excusing civic inaction because it might cause an unexpected schedule change for road crews? Why am I supposed to be so full of concern for the ease of their schedule that I'm ok with broken streets?

In short, c'mon, man.

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kjs3
17 minutes ago
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This is just a dressed up way of saying "I don't care how the road crews work or who else they might be helping, I want them working on the problem I care about". You don't know if the crews are working on bigger problems (or bigger potholes), or they're working in a neighborhood you don't drive through and thus don't care about...if they aren't patching up your annoyance right now, then screw 'em, they suck at their job.

I've gone to our municipal planning meetings for these types of things, and there is always at least one person there with this sense of entitlement. They want to talk about "excusing civic inaction" or similar just like you, but when shown "this is what the crews are working on", the retort is "yeah, but that's not the pothole on my street" (with the usually unsaid "...so why should I give a phuk about those people").

These people usually show up at other meetings to complain about having to pay taxes to pay for those repairs. But that's another little joy of local politics...

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cjs_ac
1 hour ago
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Someone in the UK did this years ago, but they painted rather cruder designs around the potholes. Naturally, the media dubbed them 'Wanksy'.
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kjs3
12 minutes ago
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This was exactly what I thought of when I read the headline. Very amusing at the time, and it somewhat unsurprisingly was effective.

I lack your laudable sense of decorum, so I'll post the link...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/street-artist-wanksy-spray-...

There have been copycats...

https://www.vice.com/en/article/guy-paint-penis-potholes-new...

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comrade1234
7 minutes ago
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Here in Zurich there's a city office where you can report graffiti that's on city property and they eventually will fix it but they have a big backlog. I learned though that if it's obscene graffiti they move it to the top of the list - there was a typical FCZ (football club Zurich) on a wall near where I live for months then one night someone spray-painted a big penis over it and the graffiti was fixed in just a couple of days later...
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gampleman
34 minutes ago
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I don't know if it will help fixing it, but it might help drivers avoid them more easily if they're painted in bright colors, which still sounds like a plus. Nobody wants to drive into a massive pothole at full speed unaware or try to dangerously dodge at the last moment.
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kleiba2
1 hour ago
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Or, if you're Arnie, you give the city three weeks to fix a pot hole and then just go out and fix it yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veCUOwd8Ye0&t=73s
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david927
21 minutes ago
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In 1961, Peter Benenson, a British lawyer, read a newspaper story about two Portuguese students who went to jail for making a toast to freedom. He wrote letters to the Portuguese government and got others to do so as well, and it got media attention, and they were freed.

That was the start of Amnesty International, which to this day, simply asks people to write a letter when they see an injustice. The spray painting potholes story has the same theme: "Better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness."

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ofrzeta
8 minutes ago
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This is what the Deutsche Bahn does on their train platforms as well. I thought it was one cohort that marks the damage and then comes another and fixes them. But true to Deutsche Bahn they just leave it as that. Now I understand that this can be considered fixing it.
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breve
40 minutes ago
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JKCalhoun
58 minutes ago
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I still want an iPhone app that uses the accelerometers to "geotag" bumps in the road.

You'd think a low-pass filter of a collective database of this data would quickly draw attention to the legit "bumps in the road"…

And you would think a city municipality could use this data (within a geofence, sorted by "popularity" and Newtons) to determine which potholes to tackle.

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xnx
46 minutes ago
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Waymo would be smart to offer this service to municipalities, especially those with supposed concerns about "safety".
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sss111
48 minutes ago
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my bmw already does this somehow, always gives me a "rough road ahead" warning. I wonder if they use accelerometers
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lenerdenator
54 minutes ago
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That's a good idea. Seriously. I think with a decent LLM tool you could get a POC going pretty quickly, and Code for America [0] is a pretty good resource for interfacing with governments on projects like that.

[0] https://codeforamerica.org/

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alexpotato
20 minutes ago
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This TED talk from a former NYC official about small changes leading to big impact on city life is great: https://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_burden_how_public_spaces_ma...

EDIT: Realized I meant the video below but both are great: https://www.ted.com/talks/janette_sadik_khan_new_york_s_stre...

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scrumper
1 hour ago
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Alright, it's worth a try. I'll do it at night in a balaclava though, because I live in the USA and no matter whether it's local, state, or federal government they'd rather spend $100k prosecuting this than $1k fixing the hole.
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bogomil
1 hour ago
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Ah, we did it in plan sight, but I guess in the US is different. I head about people arrested while truing to fix the pothole themselves, but not for painting it, yet.
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kleiba2
1 hour ago
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lenerdenator
1 hour ago
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Do we know the outcome of the case?
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prophesi
50 minutes ago
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Thankfully the case was taken to the Hamilton County Municipal Court, which I imagine was a much fairer trail than he would've received at Lockland's Mayor Court. He was cleared of all charges[0].

[0] https://local12.com/news/local/man-cleared-charges-spray-pai...

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cucumber3732842
35 minutes ago
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>He was cleared of all charges[0].

At what cost? The process is the punishment.

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bogomil
1 hour ago
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if you can send some pictures later, on the page there is a anonymous way to send us stuff
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cromulent
1 hour ago
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A friend of mine planted a small tree in one, after many months of notifying the local council. It was fixed very quickly.
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pipes
48 minutes ago
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I was wondering why potholes in my city in the UK have got outlines of dicks and balls sprayed around. Maybe this is why.
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dmitri1981
31 minutes ago
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In New Orleans, pot holes get dressed up and become part of the community https://neworleansmom.com/perspectives-in-parenting/confessi...
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lazycouchpotato
25 minutes ago
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bogomil
1 hour ago
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Cursing the government does not fix potholes. Spray-painting them does. True story, plus the moment Sofia copied us a year later
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lenerdenator
1 hour ago
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I find that potholes in my area generally get fixed, but it may take a while for them to get around to it. Furthermore, if it's a major divot on an interstate, you have to do more than just pothole repair: you have to scrape it down and completely re-pave the entire area.

One thing I've noticed in my travels is that it's rather difficult to have a pothole on a train track.

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warumdarum
3 minutes ago
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There is a goatse stencil, just saying
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Simulacra
1 hour ago
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The squeaky wheel gets the grease!
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kylemaxwell
22 minutes ago
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In Texas, you could probably paint a rainbow around it in the morning and the governor would have somebody on it that afternoon.

/s

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