Hello. My name is Ben Welsh. I'm an Iowan living in New York City.
I am a reporter, an editor and a computer programmer. My job is to use those skills, together, to find and tell stories.
I work at Reuters, the world's largest multimedia news provider, where I founded the organization's News Applications Desk. In that role, I lead the development of dashboards, databases and automated systems that benefit clients, inform readers, empower reporters and serve the public interest.
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- https://github.com/palewire/first-python-notebook
TBH I enjoyed looking up Ben and finding out what he's about and done in the past far more than I did just knowing there's a 538 archive on IA.
HN veers toward "the guts of the content w/out decoration" - limited additional information, framing, weasel words, perceived slanting, etc.
It's uncommon to name an author unless the author themself is an important part of "the story".
I personally have no issue with the original title, however it's not really for me (non US citizen) to judge whether the reporter in question has a name / identity that carries weight in US IT circles.
It helped when I developed an allergy to healing crystals.
> Thousands of FiveThirtyEight articles seemingly vanish from the internet
https://www.editorandpublisher.com/stories/thousands-of-five...
And discussions here on hn:
ABC News has taken all FiveThirtyEight articles offline https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48152553
Disney erased FiveThirtyEight (article by Nate himself) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48197703
After that election, a certain group would tirelessly work to discredit him any time his election predictions were not entirely one-sided.
The downside is this furthers the divide between folks who pay for subscriptions and masses who get shoveled ad-powered slop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral-vote.com
> Electoral-vote.com is a website created by computer scientist Andrew S. Tanenbaum. The site's primary content was originally poll analysis to project election outcomes. Since the 2016 elections, the site also has featured daily commentary on political news stories.
https://web.archive.org/web/20230205124354/https://fivethirt...
It's kinda sad to know no one else will get to experience those interactive visualizations. Though its nice to see the approval comparison page still works
https://web.archive.org/web/20241031232233/https://projects....
https://web.archive.org/web/20140701122958/http://fivethirty...
https://blog.archive.org/2017/04/17/robots-txt-meant-for-sea...
https://blog.archive.org/2018/04/24/addressing-recent-claims... which is a year later mentions that they have an automated process which is still following robots.txt for displaying old pages where the robots.txt was added later.
https://help.archive.org/help/using-the-wayback-machine/ does say they follow it for scraping, but this is phrased in such a way that would still be true for past sites whether or not they changed the policy. There is a page https://www.sysjolt.com/2021/archive-org-no-longer-honors-ro... which claims they don't follow it, but the site owner misspelled "robots" as "robot".
If archive.org can be manipulated to remove content either via legal threats or simple robots.txt it loses a significant portion of its societal value.
I remember thinking they were the best data journalists out there, and they had some nice visualizations but did their other predictions actually hold up?
This is just some Disney suits being extraordinarily petty.
"I did approach Disney a year or two ago, through my agent, about acquiring the remaining IP. ...
We were told to basically get lost: ABC was annoyed with my critical public comments about their management of FiveThirtyEight. It apparently wasn’t a long conversation, so I don’t have a lot more color to report than that."
Here are some numbers roughly in the right ballpark: during the Disney era, which lasted about 10 years, FiveThirtyEight published about 20 stories a week. Let’s say that each story took about 20 hours to produce between research, writing, graphics and editing.3 Do the math, and that works out to about 200,000 person-hours of work that ABC News just deleted.In another sense, it's a journalistic source with information and commentary on past elections. Even aside from the political context that muddies the waters around or outright denies results, matters of public discourse on the web should not be ephemeral or subject to the decisions of the publication - they should be archived.
This is why people don't really buy the "but he had Trump at 30%, you just don't understand statistics" apologist line. Sure he hedged in the dying days of the campaign (a cynic might think to try to protect his credibility), but the tone overall was of a person who comprehensively failed to understand the mood of the country from beginning to end.
Which is a problem because these election predictions are not just pure "mathematical models" and "data driven" like 538 would have had you believe. What mathematical model should be used? What data should and should not be used? At some point those things are based on the modeller's understanding of reality.
But predicting an election requires a lot more than polling datasets and statistics textbooks. That's the problem that he made himself out to be an election prediction wizard, but really that was off the back of his good prediction in quite a bland and conventional election.
When things got slightly more spicy and reality diverged from his vaunted "models", his "data science" predictably fell in a heap. The worst thing is almost not even that he got it wrong, it's that he seemed incapable of recognizing that present reality was quite significantly different from the past data he had used to build his models. Even after being wrong in so many of these predictions. He just kept churning out these pieces about how Trump was probably finished this time.
> But predicting an election requires a lot more than polling datasets and statistics textbooks. That's the problem that he made himself out to be an election prediction wizard, but really that was off the back of his good prediction in quite a bland and conventional election.
> When things got slightly more spicy and reality diverged from his vaunted "models", his "data science" predictably fell in a heap
The models were correct in two elections - arguably three because a 30% chance means that an outcome will occur in thirty times out of hundred. That is not zero.
To the person who is running this LLM, please find better things to do with yourself.
I still think that’s about accurate. Maybe it should’ve been 40%.
Everyone forgets that it was a pretty close election. Clinton could’ve won without the Comey announcement.
> I still think that’s about accurate. Maybe it should’ve been 40%.
It wasn't accurate. This is something people misunderstand about these predictions. If the 2016 election was held 100 times, Trump would have won 100 times. It's not the same as rolling dice.
These election predictions don't say that. They say something like "the observations I have agree with scenarios that have Clinton winning, 70% of the time". Which is fine and correct as far as his data and model goes, but none of those scenarios were the reality he was trying to predict. They are all just figments of the model though. Getting down to the brass tacks, he predicted Clinton would win, and he was wrong.
Which is fine, we just can't know anything about his process from that failure. Certainly we can't conclude that it was "accurate", since it was not. If we had a good sample of elections where he used the same process and built up a good record then sure.
Yes. And the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics was just violated by millions of atoms within my lungs, that happened to increase in energy above the ambient average due to collisions. Clearly thermodynamics is pseudoscience, too!
The 70% figure is saying “we know most of the information needed to determine what the outcome of the election will be but we don’t know everything so can’t be certain”. There is no process where you can know every factor that determines the result in advance with absolutely accuracy and I don’t know why people expect there would be.
[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S026137942...
What it would be reasonable to say is if his model had correctly predicted the outcome of a significant sample of elections, then you could say his model has some accuracy or predictive power. But it still would never have been accurate or right in the specific instances it got wrong, that's just a misconception about how statistics and predictive models work. I hope this helps.
>What it would be reasonable to say is if his model had correctly predicted the outcome of a significant sample of elections, then you could say his model has some accuracy or predictive power.
I don't know why you're couching that in a hypothetical, FiveThirtyEight has repeatedly done that exercise.
>But it still would never have been accurate or right in the specific instances it got wrong
It is core to the concept of a probability that the result is going to go the opposite way from the prediction sometimes! It's meaningless to call it "wrong".
40k voters, that's really not very many. So it's hard to say whether Trump had a 30% chance of winning or 40% or whatever, but the election at most was a toss-up.
Many random events could have resulted in a different outcome.
"Oh but it was only a 70% prediction"
You can't 70% win an election. Silver's prediction was that Clinton would win, but he was not super confident about it. The prediction was wrong. He was right to not be super confident about it, but the prediction of who would win was still wrong.
538's own post-mortem's on the event highlight that Trump was a very unusual candidate running in a very unusual election and as such the model was missing a lot of important information. They learned from the experience and adjusted the model going forward. Anyone complaining about that event is really just highlighting that they don't understand how statistical modeling works and are upset about how the model misled them or others which isn't Nate or 538's fault and is entirely on the consumer of their reporting. It's not like they didn't try to educate their consumers in their reporting.
