Japan is gripped by mass allergies. A 1950s project is to blame
163 points
10 hours ago
| 13 comments
| bbc.com
| HN
flohofwoe
3 hours ago
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Hmm, most German forests are also vast monoculture 'tree farms' and have been for the last 250 years (also caused by large scale deforestation in the centuries before). In the Ore Mountains we also have those yellow clouds of pollen coming off spruce trees every few years, covering everything with a thin yellow dust layer, yet I'm not aware that the number of people with pollen allergies is exceptionally high (oth, maybe it was 200 years ago and by now the population has become immune, or maybe the tree pollen in Japan is just more aggressive...).
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efesak
3 hours ago
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The spruce and other local conifers (I live by the Bohemian Forest/Bayerischer Wald) have pollen that seems to be low allergenic by design. I know a lot of people who are allergic to birch or weed pollen, but not to spruce.
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sidewndr46
1 hour ago
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By design? Who designed the pollen in those trees?
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freehorse
1 hour ago
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I read it as "breeds selected to be low-allergenic" by the relative orgs that I assume (re)planted them there but I have no real idea about german forests and the processes of planting trees there.
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idiomaddict
3 hours ago
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I moved to Germany as an adult from a completely separate biome, and I’ve got terrible problems with allergies I never had in my home country
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pelasaco
20 minutes ago
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Yes. I relate myself with that. If i am in Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, Poland, no issues.. in Germany, i have terrible problems with allergies too.
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thrownthatway
1 hour ago
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> from a completely separate biome

You were off planet‽

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eesmith
1 hour ago
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"A biome (/ˈbaɪ.oʊm/ BY-ohm) is a distinct geographical region with specific climate, vegetation, animal life, and an ecosystem. It consists of a biological community that has formed in response to its physical environment and regional climate." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biome
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INTPenis
2 hours ago
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Pollen allergies have definitely skyrocketed in Sweden. We used to be able to sit in an office and work all year without hearing people sniffle and sneeze.

Now it's like an epidemic, at least half the office is affected.

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reeredfdfdf
2 hours ago
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Probably we can blame higher hygiene standards, or some other environmental factor for it. Forests haven't changed much in past decades.

Here in Finland I've never been affected by any kind of tree pollen at all, but somehow timothy grass pollen gives me horrible symptoms, forcing me to take antihistamine most of the summer. I lived my childhood near farmland and forests, so definitely got exposed to both forms of pollen at early age.

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INTPenis
1 hour ago
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Yes timotej is my allergy as well.

And I got it as an adult, in 2009. So 26 years without any allergies, then suddenly, one summer in Helsingborg, the air was thick with pollen. I remember the smell was like cheese doodles in the air, musty.

Once I got back from an errand in the city my face was leaking, I walked to the pharmacy with blurry vision to get my first antihistamines. Ever since then every year june is a nightmare. It affects your sleep, so it affects every part of life.

And since then I've observed more and more pollen allergies around me, friends, co-workers, strangers on the bus. It's very prevalent.

I would not be surprised if humans caused this somehow with our modern city planning.

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skirge
2 hours ago
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food is full of histamine, especially fish and fermented food which is considered healthy but some (MCAS, HIT) people are sensitive.
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markus_zhang
1 hour ago
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I kinda suspect it was the Covid. I didn’t have allergic reactions until I was infected with Covid. I don’t have proof though.
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alphabeta3r56
3 hours ago
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Germany has half the percentage of forest as Japan
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flohofwoe
1 hour ago
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On average sure, but there are regions in Germany with both high amount of forest areas and fairly high population density (e.g. Ore Mountain region up to 50% forest area and more than 200 people/km^2).
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thrownthatway
1 hour ago
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Context:

Germany, area 357,022 km2 (137,847 sq mi) water 1.27%

Japan, area 377,975 km2 (145,937 sq mi), water 1.4%

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postepowanieadm
3 hours ago
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Spruce is also a problem in Poland, especially southern. Leaf trees have been replaced with "fast growing" spruce over a hundred years ago.
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soni96pl
1 hour ago
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My aunt in Poland has terrible allergies now because of yellow pollen from spruce, but I'm not sure how that translates to larger population, other than it does happen
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jeltz
1 hour ago
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Spruce allergy is a thing but it is rare. Only a few unlucky people suffer from it.
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Xmd5a
2 hours ago
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"why do you sneeze, we don't do that Germany"
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iLoveOncall
3 hours ago
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Hayfever allergy rates are growing around the whole world, Germany included.
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nelox
26 minutes ago
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The Melbourne epidemic thunderstorm asthma event 2016: an investigation of environmental triggers, effect on health services, and patient risk factors

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5...

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dv_dt
3 hours ago
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Hmm, I'm also wondering about studies about overly sanitized environments for children being correlated with higher allergy rates.

I guess poking around for a good representative study, it's actually low diversity of microbial exposure, not "cleaning" per-se that is correlated - e.g this is one reason why households with dogs have lower allergy rates. A monoculture of certain tree species also implies less microbial diversity.

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Terr_
2 hours ago
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I'd like to preemptively draw a line between two different kinds of hypothesis when it comes to hygiene:

1. The immune system is not being exposed enough to wild or even infectious content, and it needs more threats to fight off.

2. ("Old Friends") The immune system is not being exposed enough to commensal or even symbiotic organisms that we co-evolved with, throwing off its calibration and tuning.

I instinctively prefer the second, the first seems a little too simple, like some some scaled-down version of "tough love" and "spare the rod[-bacteria], spoil the child."

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Tade0
34 minutes ago
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Regarding the second point: ...or parasitic.

There's a hypothesis that says the incidence of allergies correlates inversely with the incidence of certain common parasites, like the tapeworm or the pinworm. Additionally, nowadays pregnant women are advised to avoid getting infected with toxoplasmosis due to the birth defects it causes, but it wasn't until the 70s when the last route of transmission was found and explained.

What if the body is just looking for parasites where there are none?

EDIT: I also lean on the second, as the first doesn't explain why allergies can come and go seemingly without reason.

Personally currently I'm allergic to some unindentified plant and it's a different one than back when I was a child. Meanwhile my child is right now experiencing "my" childhood allergy season - with similar severity at that.

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timschmidt
1 hour ago
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An excellent distinction to make. Life however often says "Why not both? And 11 more you'd have never thought of. And one that seems impossible just for fun."

If it's possible, and it can force a function up a gradient, life is almost certainly doing it somewhere.

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DANmode
3 hours ago
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It can go the other direction, too: exposure to moldy home environments gave me (now resolved) food sensitivities, dust allergies, pet-associated allergies, etc.

You can definitely undertrain, or overwhelm, the immune system if not cautious!

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hastily3114
4 hours ago
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Interesting. I noticed that many people have hay fever in Japan, but I always just assumed it was genetic or something. I wonder if living there for a long time will make you more sensitive to pollen
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timr
4 hours ago
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As someone who has suffered from hay fever for my entire life, and also lived in many different locations, almost every move came with a 2-3 year reprieve from my symptoms while my body "discovered" the fun new local allergens.
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mathieuh
2 hours ago
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It’s known that repeated exposure to allergens can cause allergic symptoms in people previously without them. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_fancier%27s_lung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmer%27s_lung

I actually seemed to grow out of hay fever when I was in my early 20s. Perhaps coincidentally this is also around the time I developed an allergy to cannabis from overuse. Wonder if they’re related somehow.

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jdshaffer
1 hour ago
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Yes. I developed hay fever after living here in Japan for a couple years. Was fine the first few years, though it was amusing to watch "yellow clouds of pollen" being blown from the trees with random gusts of wind. Now it's not so amusing. My car windows are dusted with a new layer of "light yellow" every couple days now (in season).
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zeafoamrun
38 minutes ago
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It's super easy to be allergic to cedar pollen because it is such a fine pollen. I developed a cedar pollen allergy within a couple years of moving from somewhere with no cedar to a heavily forested area with cedar. No other allergies to anything, I don't think I'm particularly prone. I tried doing the allergy shots for it for a while but it didn't seem to do much. What works is staying inside with the house sealed up and air filters running, or just getting the hell out of town for a month+.
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expedition32
7 minutes ago
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Airconditioning 24/7 everywhere makes people weak is my theory.
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mc3301
4 hours ago
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Lots of people I know who moved here as adults have developed pollen allergies over the years. Some after a 2 or 3 years, some after 10.
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pezezin
58 minutes ago
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I have been living in Japan for almost 8 years now, and I didn't have any allergy ever until a month ago when all of sudden it hit me like a hammer. Good god was it painful...
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tidenly
3 hours ago
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I got hayfever on my 3rd year of living here, and it seems like quite a common pattern among immigrants I've noticed. I have hayfever back in the UK too, but I guess I didn't have a Cedar allergy - so it took time to develop.
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komali2
4 hours ago
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I'd been wondering why my allergies go nuts every time I visit Japan, but never really suffered in other Asian countries. Cool to know now.

Upside is I discovered the trick of just taking fexofenadine every single day which had the side effect of solving my chronic sinus infections.

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petesergeant
3 hours ago
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My quality of life is notably better from daily fexofenadine vs what I think was low-level allergies that I developed in my 20s to pets, dust, etc
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Markoff
3 hours ago
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I would assume it has more to do with less exposition to hay/pollen in urban areas, for instance in years in Beijing I've had hardly allergies since it is not exactly green, though I went to parks, but here in Prague right now with everything blooming it's nuts.

Actually now that I think about it never head really problems with allergies even in Southeast Asia, though I was in very green areas, maybe humidity helps as well?

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tpm
1 hour ago
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I think the humidity has to play a role in that. Very dry air is not good for the nose even without allergies. This year the spring is very dry and also quite cold in Central Europe which makes things worse.
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closetkantian
3 hours ago
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I first read about this in The Emptiness of Japanese Affluence by Gavin McCormick. Really good read.
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cyberpunk
1 hour ago
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wow 170 euros on amazon.de :/
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imp0cat
1 hour ago
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So, is it 170€ good?
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pjc50
4 hours ago
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Japan being 68% forest is an astounding stat.
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PyWoody
2 hours ago
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saagarjha
1 hour ago
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Yeah but Maine is not really known for miles of urban sprawl
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vkou
4 hours ago
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75% of it is mountains, and not exactly inhabited.
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Schlagbohrer
3 hours ago
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The nation has also had declining population (hence deflationary housing) for years
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Markoff
3 hours ago
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Still behind Finland (73.7%) and Sweden (68.7%) though and Laos (71.6%) as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_forest_ar...

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Y-bar
1 hour ago
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I don’t consider that a good Wikipedia article because it does a bad job distinguishing between natural forests and mono-/bicultural plantations of which there are vast areas of here. It’s quite like calling wheat fields ”grasslands”. Both fundamentally lack biodiversity.
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sandworm101
2 hours ago
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Not really for a mountain island. Being near the coast means increased moisture and wind, which hits mountains to make rain. Take a japanese-sized slice off the coast of most countries and you will find lots of forrest. Think the pacific northwest, or the bits of hawaii not covered in lava. Then compare parts of the australian coast with no mountains.
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sl-1
1 hour ago
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Would not count it as forest, but plantation, if it is heavily managed.
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niemandhier
1 hour ago
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“Arboreal sexism” is a similar phenomenon:

We prefer male trees in cities since they do not produce fruit that drop on the streets. The result is a much higher pollen load.

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vikramkr
1 hour ago
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That's not actually a thing. Very few trees we plant have specific male vs female plants. One of the few that does that gets brought up in this context, ginko, tends to have male trees preferred because the fruit kind of reeks. Ginkgo fruit is also toxic so you really don't want masses of it getting washed into local waterways in ecosystems the tree isn't native to - not a great time for the local wildlife. A significant supermajority of all the rest of the trees that you plant in cities are gonna have male and female flowers on the same plant or male and female structures within the same flower.
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pelasaco
21 minutes ago
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I think its the same in Germany no? Heuschnupfen is something that got worse over the time and if i remember correct is as well related with some reforest project..
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OutOfHere
2 hours ago
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Doesn't pollen also have to do with the "gender" of the trees? In gendered trees, male trees emit pollen and female trees intercept pollen. Not all species of trees are gendered (dioecious) but various are. If reforestation uses male trees at the expense of female, then pollen count will be higher.

Urban developers who make the mistake of using male trees, because they don't drop fruit/berries/seed pods, will make the residents suffer pollen. Sugi and hinoki apparently are not gendered -- they're monoecious.

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rimworld
2 hours ago
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estimated 43% of the population --wow
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xchip
2 hours ago
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This article could have been summarized in three paragraphs.

I'm really hating this trend of diluting content by giving useless testimonials, random anecdotes and delaying the resolution of the subject as much as possible.

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edent
1 hour ago
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People like reading.

You could summarise all of Ender's Game in a couple of sentences but, guess what, that wouldn't be particularly pleasurable.

Not everything has to by hyper-efficient. More importantly, not everything has to be tailored specifically for you. It's OK that other people like reading long-form content.

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lloydatkinson
4 hours ago
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Only two types of tree? Even in the 1970's surely that should have been cause for concern.
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Mashimo
4 hours ago
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This might have something to do with it:

> When the sugi and hinoki forests were first planted in the 1950s and 60s, they weren't meant to stand forever. At the time, it was assumed they would be gradually cut down and replanted over time, as had been the case before the war. But as Japan's economy boomed in the late 60s and 70s, major cities like Kobe and Tokyo grew rapidly, and it ended up being cheaper to import wood from other countries such as Malaysia and Indonesia.

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thaumasiotes
3 hours ago
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I don't get the relevance of "major cities grew rapidly". That can only mean that demand for wood spiked. There's no way it can cause local wood to become less competitive with imported wood.
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freehorse
2 hours ago
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It sounds contradictory but it often does. When a part of the economy booms, it may make other parts of the economy less able to keep up because they cannot increase profitability at the same pace (so people will seek jobs with larger salaries, or investments will go different ways). Moreover, increase of demand can drive seeking cheaper sources of a product, which then overtakes the previous ones due to being cheaper (while before this increase due to regulations or lack of certain network/supply chain it may not have been possible or profitable enough to seek these sources).
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niemandhier
3 hours ago
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It does: Cheap rural workers could get better paying jobs in the cities so wages increased in rural areas to
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vikramkr
1 hour ago
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If I had to guess - lumber costs might be dominated by labor costs? If they don't have guest worker programs it might not be cost effective anymore as wages go up
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martin_a
3 hours ago
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> There's no way it can cause local wood to become less competitive with imported wood.

But isn't that what we're seeing around the world? Be it cheaper labor, political control or whatever else, imported goods can be cheaper than locally produced goods.

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ZiiS
3 hours ago
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It required imported wood come what may, which opened up regulations and economies of scale that would have made importing wood expensive.
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youre-wrong3
3 hours ago
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> which is already arriving earlier in Japan due to climate change

They couldn’t help but put in ideological bs.

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jplrssn
3 hours ago
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I’ll bite: which ideology are you claiming believers in climate change are motivated by?
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