Anthropic is expanding to Colossus2. Will use GB200
80 points
5 hours ago
| 12 comments
| xcancel.com
| HN
gaze
1 hour ago
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I think that's the datacenter with the gas turbine generators that operate without permits because they're "portable." Data centers have tremendous externalities but colossus is a particularly nasty offender, and not just due its size.

Edit: They did it with Colossus and now they're doing the exact same thing with Colossus2. https://www.selc.org/news/xai-built-an-illegal-power-plant-t...

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stronglikedan
13 minutes ago
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Seems like selc's time would be better spent trying to close the loophole that allows for unpermitted turbine generators instead of going after one company for doing what they were allowed to do when they did it.
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hemul3n
43 minutes ago
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I dug into this topic in some detail on my blog and it's both enraging and depressing.

https://poiesic.com/posts/pattern-recognition

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Torn
39 minutes ago
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This is a really great watch from Benn Jordan on the topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bP80DEAbuo

Some wild things happening with those, and infrasound. Colossus is shown 4 mins in

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georgemcbay
1 hour ago
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Yup, and now Anthropic is complicit in the environmental damage and health problems for local residents that these data centers are causing.

But hey, number must go up, right?

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idle_zealot
1 hour ago
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Have you considered that the march of progress requires human blood to grease the gears and mulched skulls to pave the (highly efficient) road? Really, when you take into account all of the future lives this will improve and save it's difficult to claim any cost now is too high. Would you stand in their way and delay the day that Mythos cures cancer?

This is a joke. Read it in a mocking tone.

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projektfu
1 hour ago
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thelastgallon
33 minutes ago
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Not Anthropic, but Sam Altman - AI will solve climate change and cure all diseases.
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louiereederson
32 minutes ago
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Per sanguinem ad astra
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LogicFailsMe
1 hour ago
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I'm not saying human blood and mulched skulls are a renewable source of power, I'm just saying. Or maybe they can partner with SoulCycle to power computation with 24/7 spin classes?
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kennywinker
35 minutes ago
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And people called the matrix’s human batteries far-fetched.
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ericd
1 minute ago
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[delayed]
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Johnny_Bonk
1 hour ago
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I loled
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morkalork
54 minutes ago
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When do we start building pyramids and doing the Sardaukar blood letting ritual?
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hugh-avherald
42 minutes ago
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When the 10-year yield hits 6%. Basic macroeconomics.
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broknbottle
1 hour ago
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Some of you may die, but it’s a sacrifice that I am willing to make.
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Nition
38 minutes ago
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A superintelligent AI will be safe though, because it learnt its morality from us.
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shimman
59 minutes ago
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Do you think Boris cares about people getting cancer and dying from these data centers? No, he cares about becoming rich as fuck.
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jquery
27 minutes ago
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Given how much our EPA has been gutted by the current administration, I don’t think relief is very likely.
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redox99
56 minutes ago
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What's the tremendous externality of gas generators? People heat their own homes with natural gas and it's no big deal. How can a datacenter that is miles away be worse than that?
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jLaForest
53 minutes ago
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The gas furnace in my basement don't have a massive jet turbine emiting high frequency noise
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redox99
13 minutes ago
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I wouldn't call noise pollution a "tremendous externality". The gas turbines should just be placed far enough from where people live.
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aurareturn
5 hours ago
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More signs that xAI might be giving up on the AGI race. xAI let Cursor train a model on Colossus 2, gave the entire Colossus1 to Anthropic, and is now giving compute in Colossus2 to Anthropic as well.
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papascrubs
2 hours ago
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Elon lost his lawsuit with openAI and knows xAI isn't on the same trajectory. Might as well try to win the bet and flip off Sam by supporting the best competition. Also they are getting a head start on AI as a commodity. I'm sure there's plenty of money to be made for those that can leverage their capital to essentially rent capacity right now. If he's not making enough off of grok, might as well cover their expenses.
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tristanj
50 minutes ago
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Bad read on the situation. xAI has too much compute and not enough customers using it. They have around half a million GPUs, some of which are stolen from Tesla, running at 11% utilization. xAI predicted more people would be using Grok, but Grok is not a SOTA model & users primarily want to use SOTA models. They have excess capacity and it makes sense to rent out GPUs to other customers while they improve their models.
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paxys
2 hours ago
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It was kinda obvious when SpaceX "acquired" it. Elon rewarded xAI investors/prevented lawsuits by giving them SpaceX equity, and that was that.
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virgildotcodes
46 minutes ago
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Here's a probably stupid question - if someone were unbounded by ethics and conceivably had enough power and connections to power to shield themselves from many consequences of their actions - and that person owned these DCs, could they in theory observe all the streams of tokens coming in and out of these models, and even exfiltrate copies of these models wholesale to have their own teams do what they will with them in the pursuit of building their own competitive models?

Or is there something fundamental in the way these models get deployed (encryption or something or than legal contracts?) at this scale that prohibits the owners of the infra from gaining this level of insight / access?

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tristanj
37 minutes ago
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1) The situation you described would be covered under the contract between Anthropic and xAI, and that any violation of that would be subject to financial penalties and legal proceedings. The US has a robust corporate legal system, and disputes do get resolved through the court system, although in a slow and costly manner.

The contract can stipulate a penalty at a high enough amount to discourage this behavior.

2) Output from models & intra-datacenter communications can be encrypted if customers truly cared.

3) There is no reason do this, because there are far better ways to exfiltrate data from Anthropic models. Chinese companies are already doing this at an industrial scale where they are reselling Claude tokens for 10-20% of the cost while retaining the data to train their own models. https://www.chinatalk.media/p/how-to-buy-cheap-claude-tokens...

If we look at Deepseek V4-pro, created by Deepseek who Anthropic formally accused of harvesting Claude tokens at scale, it performs the same as Claude did 6 months prior.

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fragmede
39 minutes ago
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There's accusations that the Chinese labs have done essentially that to OpenAI and Anthropic and exfiltrated their models without having DC access, so if you had DC access, yes, you could do that. If you had DC access though you could just copy the model onto an SSD.
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alienreborn
1 hour ago
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Why is xAI giving up their advantage? Is this a signal that their frontier model improvements are plateauing and decided there is no value in hoarding all their compute?
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dktp
1 hour ago
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I would guess it's purely because Grok isn't nearly in-demand enough to produce meaningful revenue. And they want to juice the numbers for IPO

And I'm sure it's a bonus point for Musk that it goes to OpenAI's most relevant competitor

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SoKamil
1 hour ago
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As weird as it seems I think this is Musk’s best shot at winning over Altman. He has personal vendetta.
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Computer0
1 hour ago
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When did xAI have an advantage?
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tw04
1 hour ago
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What advantage? Has there ever been any indication they’re leading in any segment? Sure Elon has thrown a bunch of money at hardware, but to what end?

And frankly as bad as Altman is from a: if AI is really going to disrupt humanity do I want this guy in charge? Elon is 10x worse. So why would the best and the brightest ever work for him?

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abraxas
1 hour ago
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No other LLM has made as much child porn as grok so there is that...
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eightysixfour
1 hour ago
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In a compute starved world, big ass data centers are an advantage.
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loktarogar
1 hour ago
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yes, but it's only advantage if one is compute-strained and the other isn't. if they both have lots then there's no advantage. if one doesn't fully utilise their compute then it's not an advantage either
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eightysixfour
1 hour ago
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Well, it appears all their competitors are compute starved so…
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8note
1 hour ago
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can you elucidate what that advantage is, that isnt renting it out for the highest price to somebody that really needs it?
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eightysixfour
1 hour ago
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Well, other than your ability to turn that into cash by renting it out for the highest price to someone who needs it, you can promise prospective employees that are supposed to use that infra to train models that they won’t be compute starved.

You can kick off more model training runs and experiments than your competitors.

You can kick off a $1-2t IPO claiming you are going to capture a large portion of the largest TAM the world has ever seen.

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sumeno
34 minutes ago
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They have neither the most resources nor the best models. They are mediocre at everything except the CSAM generation market, they've got that one cornered
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root_axis
1 hour ago
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Training a model that is larger than your competitor's.
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Rover222
47 minutes ago
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The datacenter advantage, obviously
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guluarte
33 minutes ago
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I think they overestimated the demand for Grok, which is mostly useless, and now they have too much compute on hand.
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urams
1 hour ago
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Very possible Elon is doing this to make give Anthropic better chances against OAI while he attempts to reshape xAI.

Also possible he sees infra as the future of xAI if he really believes in the value of space compute.

Hard to see this any of this as anything other than a bearish sign for Grok though.

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fillskills
53 minutes ago
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We could see the first company vertically integrated from etching to chip to data center
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jacobrast
38 minutes ago
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What do you mean by etching? Google does also it's own chip design with TPUs, data centers, and models but afaik only TSMC Intel and Samsung do the actual semiconductor fabrication
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jameson
57 minutes ago
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Right, also Anthropic has been having difficult time getting more GPUs
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brightball
47 minutes ago
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amazingamazing
1 hour ago
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I don't see a scenario where it really makes sense to be a frontier lab long term. Eventually model quality will plateau then you distill and get 90% for 10% or less cost.
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hungryhobbit
1 hour ago
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General AI is that scenario. The investor dream is that their horse hits general AI first, patents it (or otherwise somehow stops the competition from hitting it), and then reaps the massive benefits.

I'm not saying it's a likely scenario, but I genuinely believe a big percentage of AI investment revolves around that (or similar) scenarios.

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twoodfin
1 hour ago
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Over the past 6 months, Anthropic has made more waves as a product company than a frontier lab.
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amazingamazing
1 hour ago
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Cant wait to see their books once they IPO
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throwatdem12311
1 hour ago
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Cool. Can they make Claude not absolute dogwater then?
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mrcwinn
38 minutes ago
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Anthropic is gross for this. The grandstanding about principles and values is intolerable.
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jgalt212
1 hour ago
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Too bad Enron is still not around. They'd have some real fun with today's electrical markets.
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labrador
32 minutes ago
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Musk said Anthropic Claude was woke DEI until he said it wasn't. It must be hard for Musk fans to keep up.
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fasbg1
2 hours ago
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I though Claude is too woke. Musk has posted that at least 50 times in the last year.

But booking outrageous rental fees as fake AI revenue ahead of the SpaceX IPO apparently takes precedence.

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0xy
1 hour ago
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Anthropic is paying real cash, how is it fake revenue?
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123aad
1 hour ago
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Fake __AI__ revenue. Maybe Hetzner should build Colossus4, rent it out and book it as AI revenue instead of hardware rental revenue and get a P/E of 100.
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nikcub
1 hour ago
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Anthropic this quarter will have revenue of $10.9B, up from $4.8B last quarter[0]. They're paying SpaceX $1.25B per month for compute[1] - which is more than what SpaceX earn on space. SpaceX spent about $30-40B in capex on Colossus 1 & 2.

This is all real revenue, real spend, real usage.

Hetzner just aren't at this scale. Not even close. If they wanted to get into this business - first, they're late. Second, it's at a scale of ~10x of their total lifetime datacenter buildout. Third, they'd need to change their business to being one that is debt fronted.

xAI have proven out that being able to deploy compute is a very viable business (and difficult to pull off)

At some point AI cynicism clashes with reality, it must be exhausting maintaining it.

[0] https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/mind-blowing-growth-is-about-to-...

[1] https://www.wired.com/story/spacex-ipo-anthropic-compute-fin...

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er1276
1 hour ago
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Jesus Christ, the Hetzner example is obviously an example of booking revenue as AI revenue (where investors assume it is generated by Grok subscriptions) vs. hardware rental revenue, which traditionally not valued as highly.

Nowhere does the hypothetical state that Hetzner, an example for hardware rental, has the funding or the capabilities to execute the sarcastic example.

But ok, now hardware rentals have a P/E of 100 or more.

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gdhkgdhkvff
38 minutes ago
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Investors aren’t dumb. These numbers are being reported and the fact that the data centers are being rented out is publicly disclosed everywhere. Investors know full well that the revenue is from the data center rental. No (non-retail) investor is going to see the jump in revenue and think “I better buy up because grok must be kicking ass!”

And yes, if hetzner built a massive AI hyper scale datacenter and rented it out for billions, with the expectation that they would keep building more, they would also see massive PE ratios because it’s expected that their revenue would be going up.

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jgalt212
1 hour ago
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I think you're low at 100. TSLA has 370 PE, and SpaceX is targeting 250+.
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tptacek
1 hour ago
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If Hetzner could build that, they would.
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Rover222
46 minutes ago
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He talked with the Anthropic team, and his concerns lessened. It's actually a good thing to be able to change one's mind.
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tmp10423288442
2 hours ago
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The eternal truth: money talks, bullshit walks
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thelastgallon
2 hours ago
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Musk will buy Anthropic and fix the wokeness. It was done before.
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gdiamos
1 hour ago
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Don’t put it past Dario to buy spaceX
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redox99
52 minutes ago
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Elon will never sell SpaceX. And he controls 86% of votes.
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