Amazon, Facebook, FBI have access to a private intelligence-sharing network
273 points
1 hour ago
| 21 comments
| prismreports.org
| HN
baddash
1 minute ago
[-]
My thoughts as someone who doesn't know much about these types of things:

1. Terry Albury calling this list the "Panopticon" could have merit since he's a former FBI agent. However, I'd have to research more into him to figure out how credible he is, and why he is framing it like this.

2. Amazon and Facebook being in the title is most likely clickbait. They're literally only mentioned once in the article and the rest of it has nothing to do with them.

3. It's concerning that the National Security Presidential Memorandum (NSPM) can cause this network to be used to label protestors as "far-left domestic terrorists", however, that is more of an issue with the NSPM than this network. Understanding the NSPM and the effects of it is probably worthwhile.

4. The article mentions that there's no oversight program for Seattle Shield. Is that a problem? Is it typical to have oversight for a program like this, or necessary? What would the program be like?

Overall, the article feels sort of sensationalized. It frames Seattle Shield as suspicious and questionable due to its secrecy and the fact that it performs surveillance. However, there aren't any strong facts or evidence of this program being abused in some Big Brother-type way. Terry Albury framing it in this manner might be the most credible point against it, but I would have to look into that to determine how credible it is.

reply
aliasxneo
1 hour ago
[-]
> For instance, the Church of Scientology, U.S. Navy, and the Washington State Military Department told Prism that they are no longer working with the network.

That first one took me by surprise. What a random hodgepodge of organizations.

reply
giancarlostoro
1 hour ago
[-]
4chan validated in their protests against Scientology was not in my bingo card.
reply
errendgame
32 minutes ago
[-]
For people like me who had no idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Chanology
reply
skrebbel
12 minutes ago
[-]
That was amazing. I once witnessed a protest like that, in Hannover Germany I think. The idea of 4chan people actually going up the stairs and out of the house into the open air and talking to people, like with molecules and sound waves and all that stuff, it still blows my mind.
reply
marcosdumay
1 hour ago
[-]
At this point I'm waiting for the aliens appearance in the Epstein files.
reply
reaperducer
12 minutes ago
[-]
At this point I'm waiting for the aliens appearance in the Epstein files.

There was an front page article about aliens and American pedophile leaders in the most recent issue of The Onion.

I don't see it online. Maybe it takes a while for the dead tree stories to appear there.

reply
psychoslave
49 minutes ago
[-]
Such a low level of expectation of ethical level for non human beings is not fair.
reply
coliveira
1 hour ago
[-]
Scientology is essentially a scheme to get private/incriminating information from very important people. Why the surprise?
reply
sysguest
1 hour ago
[-]
damn I wonder how many scientology believers in intel actually believe in scientology...

I mean, it shows how much intel agencies can "screen for high intelligence individuals" ?

reply
sidewndr46
52 minutes ago
[-]
people believe in scientology as much as they believe in a literature club. If you listen to someone like Tom Cruise's statements he says "I have gotten to where I am today because of Scientology". He doesn't name off specific procedures, treatments, practices, etc. Partially because they are barred from naming them.

But if you're looking for a club you can advance it, I highly suspect Scientology is as quid pro quo as anything else out there. In other words, it's more of a social function than a religion.

reply
hydrogen7800
32 minutes ago
[-]
This is an interesting way of putting it, but matches my thoughts. I think most such organizations (political parties, religions, businesses, large organizations of many types) consist of true believers at the bottom of the pyramid, and moving up the ranks are folks who recognize that they can advance by understanding the game and utilizing the group mind to maintain credibility among the true believers, while displaying ambition to elites to advance the groups goals. At some point in the hierarchy are folks whose primary or only function is to advance the groups goals using middle ranks to maintain legitimacy with the believers.
reply
psychoslave
46 minutes ago
[-]
Religion is all about social function, at least from social science perceptives I guess.
reply
colechristensen
1 hour ago
[-]
Scientology is what happens when a science fiction writer acts out a dystopian plot in real life instead of writing a novel.

Read Stranger in a Strange Land, read about Hubbard and Heinlein's friendship, and look at the timeline of when Scientology started and Stranger in a Strange Land was published.

reply
CGMthrowaway
24 minutes ago
[-]
That may be true however today it is 2026 not 1961, LRH fell off the earth in 1980, and it is feasible that after the raids in 1977 and/or upon gaining tax-exempt status in 1993, some sort of deal was cut with the US state/intel apparatus to co-opt the church for another purpose
reply
colechristensen
19 minutes ago
[-]
No, shady deals and intel capture fits perfectly fine with the original dystopian novel in the real world.
reply
QuercusMax
1 hour ago
[-]
Scientologists being involved with intelligence agencies doesn't surprise me even a bit, it makes a lot of sense as a CIA cutout.
reply
futuraperdita
1 hour ago
[-]
Infiltration of government institutions has been doctrine for the group since the 1970s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White
reply
Deprogrammer9
54 minutes ago
[-]
Those weirdos followed me around Ybor near Tampa when I said something negative about them online in public. IT WAS WEIRD! But I gave no Fs
reply
stronglikedan
14 minutes ago
[-]
Man, I wish something like this would have happened to me when I was younger and spunkier. For years, I've had so many scenarios planned in my head for how something like that would play out! Even today, I might not just ignore it even though my propensity to give fucks has waned over the years.
reply
acidhousemcnab
1 hour ago
[-]
Any belief system or club that validates sociopathy as a "higher" state of evolution or enlightenment will worm it's way into intelligence agencies.
reply
red-iron-pine
50 seconds ago
[-]
the mormons are big in feddy gov agencies, for example
reply
joe_the_user
53 minutes ago
[-]
It seems likely that every tightly clique is trying to infiltrate every other such clique - it's endless battle between mafias, political parties, cults (Tulsi Gabard's connections to Krishna cult), intelligence agencies and so-forth, each trying to use the other.

But naturally, there significant limits on how much and how long each of infiltration be effective. A infiltrator from X sent to gain control of Y and gaining complete control there of will often identify with Y since leading it give them more power (Stalin was likely a agent of the Czarist secret police before the revolution but he probably wasn't taking orders from them in 1935 etc).

reply
QuercusMax
43 minutes ago
[-]
Now I want to play Steve Jackson's Illuminati...

https://www.sjgames.com/illuminati/

reply
whimsicalism
55 minutes ago
[-]
Edited title to be more sensationalist - this is a Seattle local thing

> The Seattle Shield website states that its mission “is to provide a collaborative and information-sharing environment between the Seattle Police Department and public/private partners in the Seattle area. Seattle Shield members assist Seattle Police Department efforts to identify, deter, defeat or mitigate potential acts of terrorism by reporting suspicious activity in a timely manner.”

reply
jedahan
48 minutes ago
[-]
That network is shared with police departments in cities outside Seattle per the article.
reply
whimsicalism
46 minutes ago
[-]
I encourage people imagining this as some high-scale surveillance dragnet to look at the Seattle Shield website and form their opinions https://seattleshield.org/default.aspx?MenuItemID=53&MenuGro...
reply
jedahan
7 minutes ago
[-]
Not sure if you meant to reply here?
reply
shevy-java
49 minutes ago
[-]
You have Trump. You see how he is surrounded by the superrich.

You have Palantir.

You still think this is "sensationalist"? I don't think so. The assumption here is that you wish to isolate this onto Seattle only. I think this is global instead. By focusing only on Seattle we lose the wider picture. Anyone remembers how people were surprised that Facebook connects offline-data to accounts? It's why they are more accurately called Spybook.

reply
whimsicalism
48 minutes ago
[-]
Interesting. You should write an article about this and post it on HN. This article is about an unfunded website run by someone at the Seattle PD.
reply
sailfast
4 minutes ago
[-]
[delayed]
reply
jedahan
47 minutes ago
[-]
Reminder if you work for any of these companies (not unlikely on this site) you are actively enabling this. If your first reaction is doubt, deflection, rationalization or discomfort, there are ways out.
reply
6thbit
31 minutes ago
[-]
If you make open source used by any of this companies for this network, would you also characterize it as actively enabling this?

If your retirement fund owns stocks of the s&p 500, does that make you an enabler?

Are there really ways out?

reply
jedahan
3 minutes ago
[-]
Its very personal and situation dependent, but I truly believe that if you work at Amazon or Facebook and do not want to support this, you can.
reply
Barbing
9 minutes ago
[-]
> Are there really ways out?

Not with that attitude

reply
pamcake
26 minutes ago
[-]
Are those things you are personally struggling with with (if you are considering quitting open source contribitions wholesale: don't let this make you) or is this rationalization at play?
reply
croes
28 minutes ago
[-]
No

Yes

Maybe

reply
stronglikedan
11 minutes ago
[-]
If you work for any company, you're actively enabling injustices against someone, so just make a living and don't worry so much.
reply
ozozozd
3 minutes ago
[-]
So work for mercenaries, and tell people “it’s just a job?”

Maybe there are shades of gray between black and white.

reply
jedahan
5 minutes ago
[-]
This is the kind of rationalization I am referring to.
reply
Manuel_D
19 minutes ago
[-]
Or perhaps when Amazon facilities security encounters someone doing destructive or harmful things, then sharing that information with other companies in the city is a perfectly reasonable measure?

This is functionally no different than sharing your encounters with disruptive people on NextDoor.

reply
tinix
45 minutes ago
[-]
> All suspicious activity reported must be behavior based. It is important to keep in mind that suspicious behavior, such as taking photographs or videos, is not a criminal act by itself, but may be a precursor to criminal activity.

  the number of times I've been harassed by police for taking photos... even in small towns in the middle of nowhere people are paranoid.
reply
neoCrimeLabs
37 minutes ago
[-]
I couldn't help but remember when the police talked to David Hobby (aka Strobist) for photographing a tree.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/02/chronic...

reply
Zhenya
17 minutes ago
[-]
“ The notice lists a few examples of attacks on Jewish targets in other U.S. cities last year; it does not mention widespread anti-Muslim and anti-Palestinian attacks throughout the country.”

Why would it mention it on an anniversary of an attack on Israel?

Bias alert!

reply
lorecore
6 minutes ago
[-]
Why would an attack on Israel warrant spying on US citizens? We are not Israel and our government should not be working for Israeli interests.
reply
ensen
1 hour ago
[-]
archive that won't hijack your back button https://archive.is/Td9AR
reply
andrybak
51 minutes ago
[-]
archive.is is one of the domains of archive.today, which used its end users for a DDOS attack on a blog. This caused English Wikipedia to deprecate it with the end goal of blacklisting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Archive.today_guidan...
reply
arcanemachiner
1 minute ago
[-]
Complaining about bad people online is fun, don't get me wrong... but your post doesn't contain an alternative archive link. You're just siphoning people into your soapbox.
reply
Cider9986
56 minutes ago
[-]
Huh, it seems to try to take my back button and it pretends that there is history if I open it in a new tab, but if I click on it from HN it lets me go back. But I can also see it trying to create history. Maybe it's a Brave feature idk.
reply
PcChip
1 hour ago
[-]
Why do our browsers even allow that?
reply
herpdyderp
1 hour ago
[-]
When done properly you don't even notice! It is very beneficial when needed. But, as we know, very awful when done improperly.
reply
nofunsir
4 minutes ago
[-]
> When done properly you don't even notice!

This lame argument should be added to the List of Fallacies. It's used everywhere as a "wild card" argument.

> Makeup

> MLB Pitch Framing by catchers

> Surveillance States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies?useskin=vect...

reply
sheept
1 hour ago
[-]
For websites like Gmail when you open an email
reply
hkt
59 minutes ago
[-]
To enable JavaScript crapware
reply
codezero
1 hour ago
[-]
Have a look at your local branch here: https://globalshieldnetwork.com/programs-2/
reply
zuzululu
46 minutes ago
[-]
How bad are things in Seattle that they are resorting to this? What the hell happened to my hometown?
reply
rc_kas
59 minutes ago
[-]
Where is the "I did that" sticker with trump pointing at this article.

:(

reply
jp_sc
33 minutes ago
[-]
Established in 2009. Who started as president that year?
reply
1234letshaveatw
53 minutes ago
[-]
established and operating since 2009- "Why did Trump do this?"
reply
booleandilemma
1 hour ago
[-]
Having a coalition of mega corporations all allied with each other isn't any better than having a strong government. Both are dangerous to personal liberties. I think we're due for a break up of these companies. No more Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc. We the people need to start taking power back.
reply
verdverm
49 minutes ago
[-]
No one is going to save us. I've recently been moved to direct action and started participating in a local indivisible.org group. It's had untold positive impacts on my personal mental state being with people trying to make things better, or at least slow the damage for now. Much of that is from going out and talking to random people on the street, handing out information and having conversations. Also quitting social media at the same time, save one exception for HN.

https://indivisible.org/get-involved/find-a-group/

reply
pc86
3 minutes ago
[-]
This just seems like a progressive PAC. Which, okay that's fine, but not exactly giving "weaker government" vibes, just "we want our team in charge for a bit" vibes. Happy to be proven wrong, though.
reply
shermantanktop
1 hour ago
[-]
Looks like a nothingburger? It's unfunded. An email describes a protest without giving a framing that the site would prefer. Then it turns out that nobody knows what it does, but it might do something bad.

I'm all for transparency and accountability but my assumption is that the bad things being done by LEO and intelligence are far worse than this.

reply
Shalomboy
1 hour ago
[-]
My take away from the article was that this likely isn't the only public-private intelligence network propped up by local PDs; that was pretty alarming to me.
reply
kube-system
2 minutes ago
[-]
Most large businesses do this for hundreds if not thousands of years. Large open source projects do it too.
reply
lacewing
56 minutes ago
[-]
Would it shock your conscience to learn that Microsoft security operations probably have contacts with the Redmond PD and that they occasionally discuss concerns?

The existence of a mailing list or something of that sort isn't particularly worrying. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a firewall between police departments and local businesses any more that it would be reasonable to expect one between PDs and local residents.

I would be alarmed if it turned out that Amazon was giving the Seattle PD direct, warrantless access to data about their consumers, or something like that. But there's no evidence presented here of anything particularly sketchy going on.

reply
whimsicalism
54 minutes ago
[-]
Yes, large businesses have contacts with local PD in the area. This is what BIDs basically are as well
reply
erxam
1 hour ago
[-]
I think this is a good point: this is what they're letting us on.
reply
LoganDark
1 hour ago
[-]
Do you mean unfounded?
reply
1234letshaveatw
46 minutes ago
[-]
Unfunded. It's in the article
reply
acidhousemcnab
1 hour ago
[-]
There were a lot of articles describing Snowdon / Manning and Wikileaks releases as exactly "nothing burgers", in those journals of note that people read to tell them what to think about matters - but I'm not sure what a "nothing burger" means - pulverised cattle flesh flattened into an oval, that doesn't exist?
reply
pc86
1 minute ago
[-]
Is there a term for this weird autistic pseudo-nerd-sniping where someone pretends not to understand a very common expression and takes it absurdly literally to try to prove a point?
reply
shermantanktop
32 minutes ago
[-]
The validity of the term should be separate from the pernicious use by people who would like you to stop paying attention to things that matter.

I think there’s lots of stuff in this space that is worth paying attention to, including for example just how complete a profile companies like Experian have assembled on US citizens, or Flock and LPR generally.

This just seems a lot of fluff with nothing substantial, hence a nothingburger.

reply
kittikitti
1 hour ago
[-]
As an American, I genuinely trust my data with China more than I do with the United States.
reply
organsnyder
54 minutes ago
[-]
That's actually a very logical stance: China is much less interested in what you're doing as an individual citizen—and much less able to act on what they know—than the United States is. For the same reason, Chinese citizens should trust the United States with their data more than China.
reply
ethagnawl
51 minutes ago
[-]
Please tell me they're using Workplace.
reply
shevy-java
51 minutes ago
[-]
Not so surprising - we kind of suspected this. Anyone remembers Snowden or Assange?

We have to accept the fact that presently all democracies are merely simulation of a democracy. At the least in the USA; other countries may be a bit better, e. g. Switzerland or the scandinavian countries are somewhat better (though also not to be trusted - see how Sweden pursued Assange).

Perhaps this is how things always end? Democracies are kind of like an obsolete model when you compare it to authoritarianism (assuming the USA would still be a democracy rather than a tech-corporate-fascist country run by a corrupt elite of superrich).

reply
sidcool
1 hour ago
[-]
I'm convinced Meta is a cult with Total control. It will go to any lengths to make money.
reply
root-parent
1 hour ago
[-]
reply
acidhousemcnab
1 hour ago
[-]
What in the decomposed-dissident gang-stalked tarnation is this?
reply
bigbuppo
1 hour ago
[-]
So what you're saying is that everyone that works at Amazon and Facebook are now at grave risk because the bad guys now think they're informants?
reply
erxam
1 hour ago
[-]
You've got the good guys and the bad guys mixed up. No Meta "engineer" knows what morals or ethics even are, much less actually apply them in real life.
reply
bigbuppo
20 minutes ago
[-]
Come to think about it, the one person I know that works at Meta is the absolute worst person I know.
reply
srameshc
1 hour ago
[-]
I love this comment, I just couldn't ever frame it so well :)
reply
GolfPopper
1 hour ago
[-]
Not any more than the average citizen of East Germany.
reply
kgwxd
1 hour ago
[-]
It's bad guys all the way down.
reply
markus_zhang
1 hour ago
[-]
Ah the new dark pool. Does anyone remember those from the trading? I still remember ARCA (good rebate back in the day), ECN (very fluid and very cheap), and a few dark pools that I used to get out of a trade quickly.
reply
mrobot
20 minutes ago
[-]
Interesting they have not contacted me about how they are going to be paying their subscription fee

I hope they dont think im doing all of this for free

reply