Stateless Actors
18 points
1 day ago
| 3 comments
| massicotte.org
| HN
_tk_
2 minutes ago
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You mean APTs that are not state sponsored…? Oh.
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mayoff
46 minutes ago
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This article is about actors in the Swift programming language, and I’d answer the question (“is a stateless actor pointless?”) differently: there is no such thing as a stateless actor in Swift.

Every actor in Swift conforms to the Actor protocol, which has one requirement: an instance property named `unownedExecutor`. Swift uses this property implicitly when, for example, the program calls a method on the actor from outside the actor.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/swift/actor/unowne...

(One could also argue that, because every actor type is a reference type, every actor also has its identity as part of its state.)

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mrkeen
2 hours ago
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A race condition:

  Two processes intend to add two to a number.

  They each read the current value.

  Then they each write back the value which is two bigger then the original.
If you instead use private fields and public getters/setters, or use actors to form a protective bubble around the mutable state, you get...

The exact same thing but with more boilerplate.

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hackyhacky
1 hour ago
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The key feature of Erlang-style actors is that messages are enqueued and processed serially, thus eliminating race conditions of this type.
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layer8
1 hour ago
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If the read and the write are separate messages, i.e. the computation of the modified value happens sender-side, as in the parent example, then I don’t see how a serializing queue prevents the race condition, for two concurrent senders (clients). For that you need transactions, exactly like a database.
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mrkeen
14 minutes ago
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This is correct, but databases only help to the extent that the whole world is happy to live in your database.

As soon as you have customers (who interact via REST), or partner payment systems (e.g. stripe) you're back to:

  Two customers do a GET.  This gets dispatched to the DB, wrapped in a nice transaction, the transaction ends, the customers get their result.

  The two customers then do a POST to set a new value.  Also wrapped in a transaction.
Race condition with more steps.
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hackyhacky
1 hour ago
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That's not how you would implement mutating messages in an actor system. Instead you could do either of these:

* Have an "increment" message that adds n to the current value and returns the old value.

* Have separate "read" and "write" messages, where the "write" message is parameterized by a timestamp returned by the "read" message. If the owner detects that the timestamp sent by the write is older than the most recent timestamp, it's rejected.

Because messages are handled serially, it's easy and safe to create messages that behave sanely event without explicit locks.

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mrkeen
26 minutes ago
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You wouldn't implement the "plus 2" program in an actor system this way, because of race conditions.

Same as you wouldn't implement the "plus 2" program in an OO, functional, or this way, because of race conditions.

Either way, it's up to programmer discipline.

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hackyhacky
7 minutes ago
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> You wouldn't implement the "plus 2" program in an actor system this way, because of race conditions.

Can you explain how a serially-executed "increment" message in an actor system, as I've described above, would cause a race condition?

In an OOP system you could do the same, you'd just have to build the thread-safe message queue yourself. In actor languages it's built in.

There are cases where you can get race conditions in actor languages, but I'm pretty sure this isn't one.

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