MacBook Neo Is So Popular That Apple Doubled Production
127 points
by tosh
2 hours ago
| 15 comments
| macrumors.com
| HN
juancn
1 hour ago
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I ended up getting two (one for each of my daughters).

The thing about Apple is that as the "IT" guy for my family, its ecosystem is the one which needs the least attention from me.

It really just works.

They have used Windows and Linux before (my kids and wife, that is), but something is always not quite right and needs my involvement.

These days gone 100% Mac, my interventions are usually initial setup and whenever the Samsung printer jams.

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RZelaya
40 minutes ago
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Once the Apple Silicon Macs came out, I converted my whole family from PC to Mac because the price to performance finally made sense.

I'm the resident tech support for my family and some friends, so having them all playing in the Mac ecosystem made it way easier.

My mom's fiance had a $3,000 Windows laptop for doing video editing. And I convinced him to get a $600 base M1 Mac Mini when they were new and he has never gone back. He just upgraded to an M4 Mac Mini last year

I'm sure these new MacBook Neo's are converting a whole other wave of users that have that price point as their cap but need something mobile.

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thewebguyd
37 minutes ago
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> The thing about Apple is that as the "IT" guy for my family, its ecosystem is the one which needs the least attention from me.

This is true in business/enterprise IT also. Any big company that's done a switch, or at least offered an employee choice, almost immediately saw a huge drop in help desk workload from mac users.

Legacy win32 apps aside, it's baffling to me that Windows is still the dominant share of computers issued to employees at nearly every non-tech company.

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Drunk_Engineer
8 minutes ago
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Enterprise Mac still has occasional problems -- mainly due to Microsoft crapware IT departments insist on installing.
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bigstrat2003
10 minutes ago
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It's much harder to manage Macs than Windows machines, especially if you are a Windows shop already (which most are). Microsoft is working on eroding the quality of their software, but for now the management tools they offer for Windows clients are simply unparalleled in the Mac world.
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thewebguyd
6 minutes ago
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Sure, if you're still on-prem AD or hybrid. For orgs that have already moved to full Intune/EntraID, managing windows via Intune is still years behind a good macOS MDM. InTune still feels half baked.
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infecto
18 minutes ago
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Part of that reason is Microsoft office is a third class citizen on macOS.
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nozzlegear
53 minutes ago
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> The thing about Apple is that as the "IT" guy for my family, its ecosystem is the one which needs the least attention from me.

Same here. Whenever a family member asks which kind of device they should buy, I just tell them to get the Apple device. They're going to come to me if they ever need help with it, and that happens an order of magnitude less with Apple stuff. Plus, I don't even know how to do anything in Windows anymore myself.

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sgt
54 minutes ago
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I figured this out around 2005. Get your entire company on Mac, get your entire family on Mac. Your life will have zero support calls, maybe outside of the intial "How do I install an app" which seems to confuse some people.
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wil421
35 minutes ago
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The desktop support people agreed at my last job said MACs was more expensive upfront but less hardware faults and RMA for devices that were dead on delivery. They also had less support calls after new users learned the platform. The business said hell no we would rather pay less upfront.
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tantalor
52 minutes ago
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Choosing an OS 101 https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/mx4dni/cho...

It used to be,

> Do you fear technology?

> > Yes

> Is your daddy rich?

> > Yes

> MacOS

I guess we can remove the second question now.

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frollogaston
12 minutes ago
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Yes I fear tech, idc
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mezeek
17 minutes ago
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Ah yes, the classic tech guys on Hacker News that fear technology.
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lowbloodsugar
36 minutes ago
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"Do you fear technology?" should be "Do you have no fucks to give for all the bullshit?"

I've got Pis and FPGA boards, and a threadripper for fun, but I daily macOs because I've got shit to do.

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2001zhaozhao
24 minutes ago
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I think Apple's cost efficiency advantages are really compounding now and it'll get increasingly hard for competitors to catch up. Everything they put in the product is either in-house or benefit from their scale and negotiating power.

In the MacBook Neo's case, everything from the in-house chipset and scale (for stuff like aluminum body) and the more RAM-efficient software is working in its favor. I'd bet that a different laptop manufacturer will struggle to make a profit at all if they made a $599 Neo-equivalent product with lower scale, having to pay for chips and Windows licenses, and having to put in 12GB of RAM instead of 8 to get a similar user experience.

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adgjlsfhk1
14 minutes ago
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I think the clear demonstration of this is how small Apple's motherboard is for the neo (and other M series) compared to everyone else). It really seems like the PC makers don't understand the benefits of low power chips sufficiently. If you cap your chips TDP such that it can be cooled passively, you save money on heatsink, fan, vents, power circuitry (e.g. fewer capacitors), battery size, etc.
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SonOfKyuss
13 minutes ago
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It will be interesting to see what happens. Other large laptop makers such Dell have some of the same scale advantages (minus in-house silicon) and might be more willing to sacrifice on profit margin.
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usefulcat
35 seconds ago
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I am hopeful (not exactly optimistic, but hopeful) that increased sales of MacOS devices will warrant increased investment in MacOS by Apple.
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everdrive
1 hour ago
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It's always surprising when companies don't understand that people what inexpensive, quality goods. The original Ford Maverick retailed for $19,995, Ford absolutely could not keep up with production. Ultimately, they raised prices both because they could and in order to reduce demand because they could not actually product enough units.
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GeekyBear
8 minutes ago
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Dell has just announced an 8 Gig of RAM version of their XPS laptop and the PR surrounding the launch is pretty funny.

> "Apple's MacBook Neo is a capable machine, and its arrival confirms that there's real appetite for premium quality at accessible prices," said Dell.

Who could have known that people wanted quality AND affordability?

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echoangle
1 hour ago
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They probably know that but don’t want to cannibalize their more expensive products.
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asdff
54 minutes ago
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A lot of the buyers were never going to be buyers for the more expensive products.
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echoangle
49 minutes ago
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You can afford to lose a lot of low-value low-margin buyers for not losing one high-value high-margin buyer.
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MikeNotThePope
16 minutes ago
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I’m guessing the Neo attracts a lot of new Apple customers, many of which will become subscribers of higher margin Apple services & apps in the App Store.
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rjrjrjrj
3 minutes ago
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New Mac customers, perhaps. But new Apple customers? The vast majority of Neo buyers almost certainly already have an iPhone.
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alooPotato
49 minutes ago
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that doesn't, on its own, alleviate the cannibalization concerns
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asdff
45 minutes ago
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If they don't make this product at this pricepoint, a competitor does and that also cannibalizes potential higher sku macbook sales to a degree. Every chromebook sold is a potential macbook neo customer and apple let google eat their lunch for years.
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Crunchified
48 minutes ago
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Just so you know, the original Ford Maverick started out at just under $2,000 in 1970.
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sethops1
4 minutes ago
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That would be $17,165 adjusted for inflation to 2026.
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varispeed
39 minutes ago
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Poor quality comes from the fact we have outsourced manufacturing. Nobody knows how to make things properly. Here in the UK you won't even find competent sheet metal fabricator (except for military or when you have more money than sense, but then whatever you want to sell will be dead in the water because of unaffordability).
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the_other
10 minutes ago
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> Poor quality comes from the fact we have outsourced manufacturing.

My experience with software development suggests this is not the main driver. The main driver seems to be management not caring about quality, UX, long term maintainance costs, externalities, and by viewing customer service as a cost rather than as branding.

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thinkingtoilet
47 minutes ago
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I would happily buy a laptop with medium specs but apple build quality. I don't know if the Neo's build quality is on par with their other laptops but if it is it's probably my next laptop.
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wyre
30 minutes ago
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From the reviews, my impression is that the Neo has Apple's build quality, but they cut some costs to save on machining the chassis, and the trackpad doesn't have the haptic motor.
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tencentshill
1 hour ago
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It's amazing you can get an iPad for $349 and a Macbook for $599. Even the plastic 2009 macbook alone was $999 at the lowest. Very strange to see a company do this when everything else just seems to have gone up and up.
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hylaride
1 hour ago
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My understanding is that Apple has been seeing market share issues at the low end, especially in education. Since everybody has a phone, the "casual" computer market is full of Chromebooks at cheap laptops. Laptops are a tool (again?) instead of a necessity.
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vovavili
1 hour ago
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Would be foolish of them not to take advantage of Microsoft having self-sabotage as its favorite pastime.
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PaulHoule
54 minutes ago
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... and a huge amount of help from Dell, Lenovo and the like.
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varispeed
18 minutes ago
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Chromebook should be classified as torture device.
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microtonal
1 hour ago
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It's a smart move. I started using a Mac as a student in 2007 with a cheap Mac Mini and then I was so enthusiastic that I also got the white plastic MacBook, so that I could use Mac at the university.

Since then I have bought countless MacBooks and some other models (I like to refresh every 1-3 years and then my old model typically gets passed along to other family members).

Trying to get students to use your product is a good strategy.

Also, people tend to mix pricing increases with inflation. When I my first iPhone 3G, it cost 500-700 Euro if you were able to get your hands on one without a subscription (remember when iPhones were provider-exclusive?) [1]

An inflation calculator for my country tells that this is 753-1054 in current Euros. The iPhone 17 is now sold here for 839 Euro new. Same ballpark.

[1] https://www.iculture.nl/nieuws/iphone-3g-als-los-toestel-87-...

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40four
36 minutes ago
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My first Mac was the same white plastic one, I think it was called the iBook back then? Cost me the majority of my summer job earnings going into freshman year, but it was a great machine for me back then! I still have it in a box somewhere in the basement, might be fun pull it out and resurrect it :)
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sva_
1 hour ago
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Someone who uses a MacBook Neo in School/University probably has a much higher chance of getting a higher-end MacBook later on.
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866-RON-0-FEZ
19 minutes ago
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It's not so amazing when you realize the Neo is an iPad's innards with a keyboard glued to it. $250 for a keyboard and a hinge.

This is the same company that for years dragged their feet on the iPad Mini because Steve thought you would need "sandpaper to shave down your fingertips".

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saltyoldman
1 hour ago
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I think the craziest thing is that a macbook for $599 that's more powerful than nearly anything they had offered a decade ago (except probably ram amount), and even after adjusting for inflation (which is like 35% from 10 years ago) means the price dropped at least $1500 for a comparable. (People may correct me if I'm wrong)
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asdff
49 minutes ago
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The ram is the real sticking point honestly. Yes they are more powerful but consider people's use case. My 2012 dual core mbp is still performant for what most people use their computers for: internet, email, office suite, etc. And I shoved 16gb RAM in that thing 10 years ago. I guess they will just swap on the fast ssd so it will be alright.
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riffraff
36 minutes ago
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> I guess they will just swap on the fast ssd so it will be alright

but that should cause extra wear on the SSD, or is this no longer a concern?

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asdff
19 minutes ago
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Certainly but I'd guess the problem won't manifest for years and other showstopping pieces might fail before then. That old frankenstein macbook of mine had the same 850 evo ssd I shoved in it for like 8 years of use and abuse, always high temps with that macbook too. People say you shouldn't use an ssd like that but oh well, it seems to work alright.
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varispeed
16 minutes ago
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Friend of mine has 32GB laptop with top spec last gen Intel 9 and it barely handles larger Word documents and Teams calls.

The fan is just obnoxious on top of that.

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asdff
13 minutes ago
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There is just no way it is actually barely handling them. My 2012 with the dual core handles that. Fans turning on doesn't mean it barely handles it. That is just how those intel macs were. They were like that on day 1 in 2012. Spotlight indexing could be enough to spin the fans. Still does the job though even if its hot and noisy.
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lowbloodsugar
31 minutes ago
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>a decade ago

It's more powerful than my $4000 M1 Max until it heat soaks.

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mrinterweb
32 minutes ago
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The Neo's value prop is great for many people. I keep needing to remind myself that most computer users can get by fine with 8GB or RAM, and that the I'm not the target market for products like the Neo. I do get nervous with how future proof 8GB of RAM will be in terms of total usable lifespan for the Neo. Maybe the idea is shortened timeline to obsolescence means more sales. Not digging on the build quality, but just if 8GB or RAM will still be fine 5 years from now.
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thebruce87m
20 minutes ago
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> Maybe the idea is shortened timeline to obsolescence means more sales. Not digging on the build quality, but just if 8GB or RAM will still be fine 5 years from now.

It’s products like this that mean 8GB will remain fine for longer. If every base model had 16GB then sites like linkedin would just add more bullshit to use it. Let’s keep the bar at 8GB please - we’re not really doing anything different than I was doing 20 years ago with much less.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47561489

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Centigonal
28 minutes ago
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> if 8GB or RAM will still be fine 5 years from now.

I actually think right now is the perfect moment for this!

I suspect that the massively increased cost of memory will limit the amount of memory in most consumer PCs from increasing over the next few years. In turn, this will create pressure on developers to memory-optimize their software.

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no_wizard
1 hour ago
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I’m not shocked in the slightest. Great price point for younger folks to buy or be given as a gift, the build quality is good for what it is and it is snappy for most uses.

It’s many years too late IMO but I suppose the economics only made sense once they controlled their own chipset. I imagine doing this in the intel days would have been a far worse choice

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OskarS
1 hour ago
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Not even young people: I have a very expensive MacBook Pro M5 i got from work, but my personal laptop is old and needs replacing. I’m a well-paid senior software developer and could afford any computer I wanted. But the MacBook Neo is a top contender even for me. I mostly need something for like editing documents, hobby coding and watching YouTube videos. It runs Codex or Gemini-CLI fine. For the price point, it seems perfect for a second computer. I could pay premium prices for something better, but honestly: I don’t think I need to.
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hadlock
1 hour ago
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The fact that everything bolts together inside like a ThinkPad and there's no glue means it's highly repairable. I've been looking at getting one as well, they're almost too good, I'm worried apple will revert to gluing things together as they're user repairable, which means they ought to last nearly forever. I've been eyeballing one as well, I would prefer the higher end air or pro but being able to take the whole thing apart with a single screwdriver is very appealing.
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800xl
1 hour ago
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Agree. I could afford "better" but the Neo suits my needs perfectly and I don't like expensive laptops that are prone to damage and theft. Dollar for dollar it is the best computer I've ever bought.
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fastball
32 minutes ago
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Seems to be right on time. Hard to justify putting a mobile chip in your laptop until performance has reached a certain threshold.
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brianwawok
1 hour ago
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Every school I know of is deep in the Chromebook pot. These are fairly bad computers, Neo would be a big upgrade. But I suspect it would be years for school systems to even evaluate this.
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PaulHoule
52 minutes ago
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It's no accident that they are bad computers. They aren't "fit for purpose" unless they are too weak to play Krunker.
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thewebguyd
31 minutes ago
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Kids also destroy them every year. They need to be bad, and the absolute cheap pieces of crap possible because kids will throw them against walls and destroy them on purpose.

"Can it run google classroom, can we lock it down, and is it $300 or less" are the only things that matter.

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geodel
18 minutes ago
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Not related to this discussion. But kids destroying school computers wantonly is expected? Is there no cost associated for destroying property on students or their parents?
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thewebguyd
9 minutes ago
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Yes, its expected. As for recovery, depends on the school district. Early on during COVID, it was basically a free for all because, well, if you didn't have one you wouldn't be participating in school remotely, and for some families they wouldn't be able to afford a replacement, best to just give the kids a new one.

Some districts (including my local one where I live) are now charging a "tech fee" but given these devices are still mandatory to participate, they don't withhold if they can't collect from the parents, which collection still remains a problem.

Another district near me does a keep your own device program, each student is issued a chromebook and it becomes theirs after they graduate, which seemed to have helped a little bit knowing they have to use that same device for 4 years and it becomes their own after.

edit My own solution would be just make sure the devices can't leave the classroom. Letting kids take them home is a huge part of the problem, but schools are now totally reliant on assignments being done digitally instead of just sending kids home with a textbook and worksheets.

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benoau
1 hour ago
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It actually was done in the Intel days, and it was also wildly popular -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee_PC

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microtonal
1 hour ago
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I had one, but even for those days it had a mediocre screen, mediocre keyboard, mediocre CPU, and mediocre slow storage. The MacBook Neo has none of that.
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lowbloodsugar
28 minutes ago
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Hilarious comparison. I bought one. Unusable garbage. Tiny screen. Unusably slow. 8 second battery. Awful keyboard.
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benoau
25 minutes ago
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...and yet this sparked a revolution called netbooks that took over a full 20% of the laptop market at their peak.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netbook

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baal80spam
38 minutes ago
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You must be joking. I had Eee PC, and it was terrible.
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skrtskrt
1 hour ago
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I would like to know how these are on XCode - would love to have the cheapest/most lightweight possible way to build iOS apps (derived from some cross-platform builder like Expo/Lynx/Dioxus) since I have no other use for MacOS.

Looking at tech specs, it seems like the one with 512GB drive might be serviceable. I have a very old 256GB Air and I struggle to keep enough drive space open to have XCode installed on it.

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starkparker
41 minutes ago
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you'll hit the RAM limit at some point, and you'd almost certainly want to mod it to alleviate the heat issues that kill sustained performance
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AdmiralAsshat
1 hour ago
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Not surprising. I've been looking at potentially getting one for my mother. Her last Windows 10 laptop is pretty long in the tooth, and there's no way in hell I'm getting her one with Windows 11 on it.

The Neo seems to fill the same niche that the Chromebook once did, and, since she's already in the Apple ecosystem due to her iPhone, an "Apple Chromebook" seems like an attractive proposition.

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sgt
55 minutes ago
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With 12GB it's a seriously cool offering. I actually know 8GB works as well, and I've seen people on MacBook Airs with 50 tabs open, full IDE's and breezing. But I still would want at least 4GB more to be on the safe side.
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paulpauper
53 minutes ago
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Web applications and websites are more bloated than ever. I think you need more ram not less.
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sgt
8 minutes ago
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Well, you'll be fine on pretty much all websites out there with 8GB, and virtual memory helps you with multiple apps, dozens of tabs. They don't all need to be in memory at once. Apple Silicon helps move that data around very fast.
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perarneng
32 minutes ago
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I would rather own a used MacBook AIR than a new MacBook Neo. I usually don't like used computers but I just can't stand the anxiety of having to only have 8Gb RAM. Sure, it swaps, it compresses memory etc.. but still.
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lostlogin
44 minutes ago
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I wonder what effect the colours have on sales?

It’s a hell of a lot more interesting than silver or dark grey.

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ryandvm
40 minutes ago
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I don't doubt the Neo is a quality product, but I'm curious whether cheap MacBooks are going to sabotage Apple's cachet as a luxury brand. It's my personal experience that iOS users tend to look down on "green bubbles" in a way that can only be explained as some sort of brand superiority complex.

I'm sure millionaires wouldn't appreciate it if Lamborghini sold a $25K model...

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snowwrestler
11 minutes ago
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Apple has never been a luxury brand. It’s a label lobbed at them by critics and fans of competing products. But it’s never been supported by their price points, volumes, marketing, or operations. The few times they have tried to play in the luxury market, like their gold $10k Apple Watch, it went pretty much nowhere and they quickly stopped.

They make not-crappy productivity tools at not-cheap price points, and aim for top-5 market share. That’s not a luxury product strategy. They are a lot more like Honda or Volkswagon than Lamborghini.

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webnrrd2k
4 minutes ago
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It's lot Lamborghini, but Lotus had the $40,000 Elise a while ago. I don't remember how it worked out in the end, but a lot of people were excited about them at the time.
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elicash
30 minutes ago
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I haven't had the chance to touch one yet. But the reviews seem to suggest the hardware doesn't "feel" cheap in the way a lot of low priced computers can.

I can't vouch on whether it's true, but that's the brand question here in my opinion. If the hinge was crappy and it felt like it was going to break any second and the keyboard was a return to the butterfly and it was slow and so on, because they wanted to make it cheap, then yeah I think that'd hurt their brand overall.

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thewebguyd
30 minutes ago
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I don't think it'll dilute the brand at all. The neo still feels like a premium product. Other laptop OEMs are now starting to come out with their competitors, and they are putting 1080p crap display panels on them like they always do. A $599 laptop with a 1080p screen from Dell is going to feel like a cheap piece of junk next to a Neo.
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rjrjrjrj
32 minutes ago
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They make the best-selling phone model in the world. Best-selling smart watch, etc. Apple is not a luxury brand.
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summermusic
34 minutes ago
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> I'm sure millionaires wouldn't appreciate it if Lamborghini sold a $25K model...

Oh no, won’t someone think of the millionaires

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alberth
1 hour ago
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I wonder what the margin profile is of the Neo vs Air vs MacBook Pro.

I have to imagine the Neo is lower margin %, but maybe I'm wrong.

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ksec
1 hour ago
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Since most of the R&D are done on the iPhone side, Neo's margin is actually quite good. The R&D for M5 and M5 Pro etc have to be amortised by Air and MacBook Pro.

The percentage should be similar. In the old days of Apple pricing, Apple margin is nearly fixed and you could literally work out their BOM by doing reverse calculations. Things changed with Tim Cook but it is still largely similar.

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onlyrealcuzzo
1 hour ago
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> The R&D for M5 and M5 Pro etc have to be amortised by Air and MacBook Pro.

And Studio and Mac Mini - which have gotten a lot more popular as of late.

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GeekyBear
37 minutes ago
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Apple's advantage is that they design a large share of their own parts, and their partners build them at a very high volume since they are used in more than one product line.

They don't have to pay a margin to so many component vendors in addition to economy of scale gains.

At a lower Neo volumes, they were using already manufactured iPhone Pro chips that were binned due to a bad GPU core, but they reportedly have already blown through that supply.

They also came up with a new process that uses extruded recycled aluminum for the case, which needs much less CNC time to clean up.

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microtonal
1 hour ago
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Lower margin, but higher volume. Plus a subset of the buyers will subscribe to Apple Music, buy apps from the App Store, etc.

I am surprised that they only do it now, since Mac marketshare growth has stagnated for a long time and it's even hard to grow the iPhone marketshare. Growing the Mac marketshare by making very competitive models is one of the best ways for them to grow and to grow services fees.

I think the problem was Apple management was too obsessed with the iPad, believing they would replace laptops.

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PaulHoule
51 minutes ago
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If they had really thought the iPad could replace laptops they would have tried harder the way Microsoft did with Win 8.
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jmkni
1 hour ago
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I wonder if they're losing money on the actual units to get more people into the ecosystem?
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rjrjrjrj
17 minutes ago
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I don't think so.

For most people in the Apple ecosystem, the iPhone is central and the Neo is another useful (but secondary) companion device. Not unlike the Watch and Airpods.

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_fw
1 hour ago
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Leaving money on the table, as opposed to losing it. They make a decent buck on the hardware, but could have charged more (though likely would have sold fewer units).
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fra
1 hour ago
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no chance
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cute_boi
1 hour ago
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actually i am thankful that microslop is losing more than apple. They could've made better OS than macos by not adding candy crush or copilot slop.
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ksec
1 hour ago
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It was not the normal Apple Mac Pricing to begin with. But let see if they will stick to $599 next year when it comes with 12GB RAM and hopefully double the SSD speed. I wouldn't be surprised it would have similar sales if it was priced $699.

It was also a very low initial production volume to begin with. So doubling isn't because it is doing above everyone's expectations, it is because Apple underestimated the demand. That is also ignoring the summer back to school season.

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CharlesW
1 hour ago
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> So doubling isn't because it is doing above everyone's expectations, it is because Apple underestimated the demand.

Clearly it's doing above their expectations, and they had precise data in the form of their test selling the M1 Macbook Air at $599 (occasionally $499) since 2024. It's too bad you weren't at Apple so they could've avoided this mistake!

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dylan604
58 minutes ago
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> It was also a very low initial production volume to begin with. So doubling isn't because it is doing above everyone's expectations, it is because Apple underestimated the demand. That is also ignoring the summer back to school season.

Doesn't that mean precisely that the sales are above Apple's expectations which is everyone in all that matters here.

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