Big AI labs are hiring philosophers
77 points
4 hours ago
| 23 comments
| economist.com
| HN
https://archive.is/T1FJG
YuechenLi
1 hour ago
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Strangely, I found that LLMs responds better to philosophical explanations alongside instructions when writing code than simple imperative tasks of "do this". For example, if you tell a frontier model "This is the feature I'm trying to implement, and this is the problem I intend to solve with it and the reasoning behind it.", you usually get a lot more reliable results that both pass tests as well as function as you intended, even if your spec isn't as detailed overall.
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andy99
1 hour ago
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That sounds like providing context rather than anything philosophical, and it stands to reason that it would lead to better decision making.
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YuechenLi
8 minutes ago
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I would say it is definitely a form of context, but when people think of LLM context windows in terms of coding is more technical context related: "what has been done before, what's the coding task at hand." etc.

However, I think that there is a philosophical portion to that context as well: "What problem is this feature supposed to help with? How would you verify that passing unit tests means that the code is working as intended? Does this feature need to exist at all?" LLMs usually need these to be provided to them explicitly since they are not good at inferring the correct intent compared to humans, otherwise they just make something that looks right but doesn't work right.

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munk-a
48 minutes ago
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The same effect can be observed if you've ever been a software developer where you're told what solution to build without any of the context of the problem you're solving. "We need an FTP server, quick, ops, get on that." leading into "Oh, it turns out the customer didn't need that to receive our emails" leading to a bunch of very puzzled devops.
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win311fwg
23 minutes ago
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In my experience as a software developer, reverse engineering a stated solution back into the actual problem is almost the whole job.
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indoordin0saur
29 minutes ago
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Yeah lol. That definitely does not sound like philosophy. Giving a "why" you want to implement a feature and make particular changes will help the AI stay on track much better than if it is driving blind. It can't make choices without understanding what the desired outcome is.
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WarmWash
1 hour ago
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There is a strange and bittersweet irony to the first truly impactful AI being more like your extroverted socialite and less like your robo-logical basement geek.

The trope has always been that the AI will be a rigid logician that fumbles and gets confused by human social quirks. Seems instead they love being chatty and playful with words.

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mgambati
38 minutes ago
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That’s context, not philosophy.
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gaigalas
39 minutes ago
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That's interesting, however, what you describe is philosophy in a coloquial framing (non-technical, purpose-driven, etc).

AI companies are hiring academic philosophers, which is something else entirely. It's a discipline that dealt with centuries of socioeconomic changes, deep questions about reality and the self and other important topics that became relevant when humans started interacting with machines.

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why_at
4 minutes ago
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>Dr Floridi describes the scale of departures from philosophy departments as a “haemorrhaging”.

I wonder if anyone who is connected with actual academic philosophy can comment on this. I'm pretty skeptical.

This is a field where it is notoriously hard to get a real academic position, I would bet there is no shortage of people for these roles.

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Hard_Space
38 minutes ago
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This is interesting. Until autumn of 2024, when the company was subsumed into a better-heeled AI-VFX concern, I worked for probably the best-known and earliest all-AI VFX house, whose ethics department was headed by a philosopher, though the company struggled to place him to practical advantage.

The only comment I can make on the general trend is that it's apparently good PR for cash-saturated startups. Ultimately what AI 'means' is certainly not the business of those making it (who are arguably least-qualified to comment); and insider insights offer no benefit that I can discern.

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maxaw
19 minutes ago
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Given the the labs are trying to create [super] human-like consciousness, partly through the guidance of huge system prompts, and many philosophers are experts in textual descriptions of consciousness it makes sense
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elphinstone
1 hour ago
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Well that PR is cheaper than buying Johnny Ives for $6 billion. You could probably buy an entire Ivy League philosophy department for 60 million.
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AlotOfReading
1 hour ago
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The AI price inflation is unreal. Used to be that you could get the grad students doing all the actual work for the price of a pizza party and alcohol.
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dbuser99
58 minutes ago
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I suppose they should. That seems like the right, or at least a related, discipline for some of the questions raised by ai developments. But i cannot help but feel completely unenthusiastic about the idea of the AI labs controlling the narrative around societal impact of AI.
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dgellow
15 minutes ago
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They need sociologist of the goal is to mitigate societal impact, not philosophers
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personjerry
4 hours ago
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Hmm I spent a good amount of time in big tech, now work in AI, and I minored in philosophy at Berkeley back in the day (Parmenides, Socrates, Plato etc.)

How do I align myself with such a job?

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dvt
2 hours ago
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Usually you need to be well-published/cited in the field, so a minor would likely not qualify. People joke around, but philosophers are some of the smartest people I've ever met, and it's not even particularly close. (I graduated ~10 years ago, so most of them are sadly lawyers or in academia these days, though some are engineers or entrepreneurs.)
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gizajob
3 hours ago
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Same - philosopher here please hire me. My bachelors thesis was “Wittgensteinian problems for artificial general intelligence.” Three decades working closely with tech and haven’t failed the Turing test yet.

I think SBF and his education from birth (via his mother) in consequentialism should point to the issues made clear when that ethical approach goes wrong or operates from bad, egoistic data, which it’s generally always doing.

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munk-a
41 minutes ago
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Genuinely, understanding around philosophy of action has been deeply enriching over my life. To anyone trying to decide on a minor philosophy is always an excellent choice.
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asdff
2 hours ago
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You need to use everything at your disposal. Wait for the planets to align and the tea leaves to indicate good success. Don't apply until the chicken bones suggest a good time for someone with your constitution. You are going up against a thousand other candidates more or less equally qualified for a highly vague job description and 350k base salary.
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slowmovintarget
2 hours ago
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Find non-Utilitarian alternative to Effective Altruism by somehow channeling Dostoevsky? Propriety and Reward?
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rawgabbit
34 minutes ago
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Socrates argued if you believe something is evil and powerful people do evil then by definition they are not "powerful" -- they are just "evil". As a corollary, if you believe something is good and the people who do good happen to be the weakest members of society, by definition, they are "powerful" -- it is society that is messed up.
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simongr3dal
3 minutes ago
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Getting the feeling that Socrates had a different definition for "powerful" than most.
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glimshe
24 minutes ago
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Some say that much of modern philosophy is simply wordplay with limited actual content... which is exactly what LLMs are great at.
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geye1234
2 hours ago
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For those of us who have read Paul Graham's submarine essay, should the last paragraph be a giveaway? The "AI theoretician's" quote seems to have nothing to do with the rest of the article.
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sdellis
52 minutes ago
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If you're talking about the quote being a giveaway that the article is PR, I'm not following you. The point of the last paragraph is a warning that outsourcing ethical decisions to an AI is likely to result in decisions that one might not actually make and find morally dubious.

And prioritizing Consequentialism in AI, especially with weapons, is a dangerous bargain. "How do you make decisions when the consequences are unclear?" Since when are the full consequences _ever_ clear?

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Terr_
1 hour ago
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> Paul Graham's submarine essay

To save a few clicks: https://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

> [The] PR industry, lurking like a huge, quiet submarine beneath the news. Of the stories you read in traditional media that aren't about politics, crimes, or disasters, more than half probably come from PR firms.

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felooboolooomba
1 hour ago
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>more than half probably come from PR firms

Imagine how bad it is on social media.

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bharxhav
51 minutes ago
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It'll be funny when AI will embody human philosophy better than us.
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throwitaway222
45 minutes ago
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Jesus will come back in 2031 and say - oh shit where is everyone?

Humanoid Cylon pops out from the woods: Oh, crap you were really real! We exterminated all the humans a year ago. Well, I guess we did make a mistake.

Someone make an AI video of that.

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mohamedkoubaa
51 minutes ago
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I wonder if they're trying to recruit Yuk Hui
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DiscourseFan
37 minutes ago
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My god if I could be a part of a research team with Yuk Hui...but I don't think a lot of these guys have practical experience.
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giardini
54 minutes ago
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When they should have hired mathematicians!
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nyeah
1 hour ago
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Maybe George Gilder is available. No PhD but lots of hands-on experience.
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seydor
47 minutes ago
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philosophy should be the output, not the input
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aniokono
3 hours ago
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I think it's in search of AGI (artificial general intelligence).
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cmrdporcupine
53 minutes ago
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Damn, I dropped out of my philosophy undergrad -- 30 years ago last month -- to join the .com insanity. Wrong turn?
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smokel
1 hour ago
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I don't buy the article's title "Why big AI labs are hiring so many philosophers". They probably just hire one or two, and hundreds of software engineers.

I always found it somewhat annoying that a philosophy study would present itself by stating that graduated philosophers have great job opportunities, implying that studying philosophy would not be a bad choice. It just attracts really smart people, and these tend to find a job more easily. This article seems to make the same kind of mistake.

Also, for all we know these imagined herds of philosophers at AI firms are just labelling pictures of dogs.

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gizajob
20 seconds ago
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When I’ve read about these philosophers it seems often like they’re there to affirm whatever needs to be affirmed, rather than doing the philosopher’s actual role of finding extreme fault in whatever you’re doing and showing how unsound the thinking is and how the task being carried out won’t lead to the results desired etc etc
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the_af
30 minutes ago
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What strikes me as funny is this notion of hiring academic philosophers to work in the machinery of startups and businesses, "money (and coffee, presumably) in, philosophy out".

The kind of "philosophy" the article mentions is school-level and common knowledge, hopefully they don't need to hire anyone to learn about e.g. the Socratic method (their own LLMs will happily regurgitate it). Are they truly hoping to "buy philosophy" or have scholars "do philosophy" for their AI systems? Do these entrepreneurs even understand what philosophy is? I guess Silicon Valley really is doomed to rediscover (and misunderstand) the wheel again and again.

In any case, if I were a philosopher, I wouldn't count on this. This kind of jobs are very likely to fall prey to layoffs, and even worse if their "philosophizing" produces conclusions their employers don't like. I still remember when one of the FAANG (Google?) fired their head of AI ethics because they didn't like what she was saying. I think she may have been a bit abrasive, but really, philosophy isn't a product and if they are going to corral how philosophers think or communicate, it's not going to work.

---

Edit: from TFA:

> TEN YEARS ago, as the AI revolution was gathering pace, arts and humanities students were told that, if they wanted to make themselves employable, they should “learn to code”. That may have been bad advice

More like made-up advice. Never heard of it. It's true it was often said (way before 10 years ago) that it was hard to find employment in the humanities, but really, who adviced them to "learn to code"? The (dumb) learn to code movement was not targeted specifically at them. Sometimes it seems to me articles get written in bizarro world.

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nakedrobot2
4 hours ago
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is there a link available that allows us to actually read the article?
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pramodbiligiri
3 hours ago
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dominotw
1 hour ago
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my comment from 12 yrs ago came true lol

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8517186

take that top responder

> From philosophy? Are you kidding? There's simply no way AI is ever going to come from a bunch of people arguing over what is "qualia" and what is "consciousness

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llbbdd
1 hour ago
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I think, therefore I am seeking 2.5m total comp
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dang
37 minutes ago
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Please don't post snarky one-liners here. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
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llbbdd
13 minutes ago
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My bad, I meant for this to come off more funny than snarky. Appreciate the check.
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onion2k
1 hour ago
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I stopped thinking for myself, therefore I am not.
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andy99
1 hour ago
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In a world where everyone is using LLMs, the only way to differentiate oneself is to actually think. I don’t know if this is part of the idea behind having some in-house philosophers but it would be interesting. If I was a big lab I’d definitely want some “clean room” humans providing input that’s not just what a model regurgitated.
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saltcured
4 minutes ago
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It's mechanical turks all the way down?
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rvz
1 hour ago
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Time for the regular posts on "how do I transition from senior software engineer to philosopher?"
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lelandfe
54 minutes ago
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Buy a lantern and start holding it up to your coworkers’ faces saying you’re looking for a good coder
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munk-a
46 minutes ago
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It carries the danger of one of your coworkers responding "What makes a coder good?" and stealing the promotion, though.
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Revanche1367
59 minutes ago
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If you have to ask, then you aren’t any longer.
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darth_avocado
55 minutes ago
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Just look at their HN karma
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cphoover
2 hours ago
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We couldn't possibly be in a bubble.
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dvh
2 hours ago
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Title said philosophers, not taxi drivers.
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rvz
1 hour ago
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Regardless of the title, the entire point still stands unchallenged.
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d_burfoot
53 minutes ago
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It is going to be a big problem for humanity when the superintelligent AIs start telling us that our political philosophies, to which everyone is deeply and emotionally attached, are total garbage.

One obvious example is: we have a bizarre and anomalous belief that political union has a special moral status unlike other relationships (marital, financial, social, etc). In all other cases, relationships require consent from both parties, and it is monstrous to use force to compel a relationship. If we applied this logic to political relationships, we would immediately conclude that unilateral secession is a sacred right. But no one is ready to bite that bullet.

https://unifixion.substack.com/p/the-anomalous-ethics-of-pol...

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saltcured
31 minutes ago
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Not sure I buy this. In my mind, dissolving this state relationship would be renouncing your citizenship as an individual.

Then, it seems naive and problematic to think you can take a personal chunk of territory with you after renouncement. At the very least, I think this is akin to trying to unilaterally drop an easement from a property deed. These territories were committed in perpetuity, not loaned with an expiration or compensation clause.

Acting collectively, it is still just many people deciding to renounce. Why would the territory go with them either? This tension is what makes it a revolutionary act.

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anonymous908213
48 minutes ago
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What are you even talking about? The right to self-determination is literally Article 1 of the UN charter. Nations are governed by power relationships, not philosophical ones, so they ignore the charter, but you aren't proposing anything novel or groundbreaking in any way. It is, in fact, the very first sacred right enshrined in international law, and has been for over 70 years.

In practice, Americans supported their own independence, and they support independence for eg. Taiwan, but they don't support independence for the Confederacy because that would entail weakening their own nation. To the extent that anyone will try to rationalise the American Civil War, they might reach for slavery, but a philosophical belief that political union is absolute and nobody can declare independence is not it; at most that's just a flimsy post-facto justification for the already-decided fact that states must not allowed to secede for power reasons, and this is evident from the fact they don't condemn their own revolution and advocate for return to British governance.

Very self-serving that you believe superintelligent AI is going to tell people your ideas are the best ones, incidentally.

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