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Exploring PDP-1 Lisp (1960)

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by ozymandiax

1 hour ago

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| 3 comments

| obsolescence.dev

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ozymandiax

15 minutes ago

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I was wrong - it was not Peter Deutsch who ported Eliza to Lisp, it was Bernie Cossell at BBN (one of the famous IMP Guys a few years later!). And it is here:

https://github.com/jeffshrager/elizagen.org/tree/master/1966...

That makes a PDP-1 Lisp backport very tempting... amazing how ancient code comes back from presumed extinction.

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ozymandiax

1 hour ago

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Written by Peter Deutsch, then a then-high school student on a tiny 4K (admittedly, 4K 18-bit words) machine. Amazingly usable - and lives on in the Python REPL concept.

Our PiDP-1 simulator on github lets you try it out on any Linux machine (not just a Raspberry PI): https://github.com/obsolescence/pidp1

Posting this in the hope that someone will feel triggered to backport Eliza, it was done in the 1960s but it's been lost :-)

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blooalien

1 hour ago

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> Posting this in the hope that someone will feel triggered to backport Eliza, it was done in the 1960s but it's been lost :-)

Some of us who remember actually playing with Eliza are absolutely amused by all the hype around LLMs (because it's so similar to the hype heard from "normies" who saw Eliza and thought we were "just around the corner from real AI"; The same folk who thought we'd all have a flying car in every garage by now, LOL!). Still really impressed by what LLMs actually can do though, despite them being not much closer to true "thinking machines". ;)

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gwern

57 minutes ago

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ELIZA has been refound: https://sites.google.com/view/elizaarchaeology/home

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ozymandiax

33 minutes ago

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Actually, https://github.com/cl-aip/eliza/ would be a great starting point for a backport to Lisp 1.5. Hmmm...

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ozymandiax

51 minutes ago

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We already have it running on the PDP-10 reconstruction, and it is known that people around Deutsch at BBN ported it back to the PDP-1. But that version has been lost. From the link you gave, a backport would be feasible... especially because the PDP-1 simulator has the full memory upgrade to 64Kw!

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ozymandiax

1 hour ago

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When we visited some of the 1970s 'heros' of the MIT AI Lab, we were told the informal story behind SHRDLU, the AI living in a PDP-10 3D world. How this graphical AI triggered the first AI Summer --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZGQcJVdjj8

-- and as it fell short of first impressions, perhaps the first winter too?

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blooalien

1 hour ago

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Fun times, gettin' in early on the "tech scene" and watching it progress so quickly (yet at the same time so slowly in many ways compared to how it could have gone had greed and ignorance not held it back by decades). :)

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ozymandiax

1 hour ago

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I was born too late (not a bad thing necessarily) to have experienced that founding era. But I think that for later generations, there's a lot to learn still from what evolved in the earliest years. We've gained a lot since then, but we also lost a lot. Mean and lean programming, closeness to the hardware, inventiveness. And the liberating absence of 'software stacks'...

It's fascinating how on such a tiny computer, something like a comfortable interactive Lisp just emerged. Relatively comfortable.

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fsckboy

19 minutes ago

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>Posting this in the hope that someone will feel triggered to backport Eliza, it was done in the 1960s but it's been lost :-)

you can run eliza in emacs, just " M-X doctor " enter

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sourdecor

1 hour ago

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Kind of a non sequitur: I bought "The Genius of Lisp"[0] and it is not what I thought (a book entirely devoted to the history of Lisp - from MIT to Common Lisp and then to Clojure). Would anyone recommend another book?

[0]: https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Lisp-Cees-Groot/dp/1069886416/

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ozymandiax

1 hour ago

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The PDP-1 Lisp page has 4 rather good books linked as PDFs. Oh - but all on the earliest history of Lisp as well! That is not what you're looking for I think.