The Book of Kells, now digitized and available online
415 points
2 months ago
| 17 comments
| openculture.com
| HN
CalRobert
2 months ago
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The book of Kells is gorgeous and well worth a visit.

If you are in Dublin and enjoy this sort of thing, _please_ also take the very short walk over to the Chester Beatty Library (https://chesterbeatty.ie/) as well. It's free and has an absolutely fantastic collection of ancient and sacred manuscripts. I was lucky enough to live across the street from it for several years and it remains one of my favourite museums in the world.

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grujicd
2 months ago
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Chester Beatty is a gem. I went into it not expecting much from "museum of books". But it's also in a way a museum of world's religions, which are tightly connected to writing and books. As an atheist who has low opinion on value of religion because of all the deaths they were and still are responsible for, it reminded me of their positive role in history. When you see all those ancient religious books you begin to question whether we would have writing at all without them? Who would go through a painstaking process of duplicating books before Gutenberg if not men devoting their lives to God? Thus carrying light of civilization and creating basis and tools for science to progress later. I know this is not some great revelation, but I felt enlightened a bit after leaving Chester Beatty.
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noufalibrahim
2 months ago
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Your post reminded me of the story "A canticle for leibowitz".

It explores many of the ideas you've mentioned. I recommend reading it if you haven't already. I think you'd enjoy it.

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grujicd
2 months ago
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Thanks for the recommendation, looks like the kind of book I'd enjoy.
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Intermernet
2 months ago
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If you like libraries like this, and you're ever in the area, I can highly recommend the Herzog August Bibliothek in Wolfenbüttel, Germany.

Crazy amount of incredibly rare books and manuscripts that you can actually look at. For many you will need to wear gloves and may have someone hovering over you, but it's worth it. Some absolutely mind blowing material in that library!

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stogot
2 months ago
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The idea that religion causes more deaths than non-religion is absurd in the 21st history (hitler, Stalin, mao) and is a myth when you take in full world history.

An index of all known wars in history indicated 93% of wars were not religious.

https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-ca...

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grujicd
2 months ago
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Never said that religion was responsible for all or even most wars. But you can't deny it plays negative role in many wars. It wouldn't have to be for theological reasons, since it seems the article would only count these cases as religious wars. Religion is often used to segregate humans into opposing tribes, where without religion they could be a single nation, or even same ethnicity.
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jack_pp
2 months ago
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Religion as taught in schools or many (most?) churches is indeed mostly indoctrination. I've gone the full spectrum, from practicing Christian with a real fear of God as I was taught since I was a kid until 13 then atheist until 25 then slowly getting back my faith by learning a lot about it from different sources.

Now I say I'm as sure that "God" exists as I am of gravity. Too many synchronicities have happened to me for it to just be coincidence. However I still believe that church is mostly a corrupt institution with very few exceptions.

I know Jordan Peterson is a polarizing figure but his biblical lectures are very good and seem like they were created by a different person than he currently presents himself. I'd also recommend Ram Dass and especially Alan watts talks about Christianity

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Keyframe
2 months ago
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What kind of logic is that? Exactly the opposite could be said as well and still hold true.
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chvrchbvrner
2 months ago
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If you mean by "the opposite" that everybody believes the same thing, then theoretically yes. However, that is very unlikely and I assume there will always be people with different views/opinions.

The more you put people into "separate boxes", the more you segregate them. And I agree with the previous reply that religion is one of those things that puts you in a specific box.

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lazyasciiart
2 months ago
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I think they mean that people in large groups segregate themselves into smaller ones, by whatever characteristics available. If they had the same religion they’d be separated into orthodox and progressive versions of it, or people who had come off well out of the last great flood vs people who got screwed by it. And then they’d create a religion as explanation for the flood and why it was from god/the devil.
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verisimi
2 months ago
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> And then they’d create a religion as explanation for the flood and why it was from god/the devil.

.. as opposed to climate change which is self-evident.

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taylorius
2 months ago
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It's a multiplier. The strength of faith it brings will unite people in single mindedness, for good or bad ends.
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jajag
2 months ago
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> Religion is often used to segregate humans into opposing tribes

You can say that about absolutely any belief, whether religious or not

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brendoelfrendo
2 months ago
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Agreed! We went last year and thoroughly enjoyed it. I understand that the Long Room in the Old Library is mostly empty for renovations, but the Book has been moved to a dedicated building during this time.

Pro-tip to any potential visitors: they turn the pages every so often, and I have heard some travel bloggers complain that the pages on display when they went weren't very interesting, but the university will show you what pages of the book of Kells are currently on display: https://www.visittrinity.ie/book-of-kells-pages-on-display/

At the moment, it appears that they have it open to a pair of canon tables which have some really lovely illuminations.

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leoc
2 months ago
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Strongly agreed. This is likely more obvious, but I think it's worth saying: the "Treasury" in the Kildare Street building of the National Museum of Ireland should also be at the top of any visitor's list. The Ardagh Chalice and friends are more or less the equal and equivalent of the Book of Kells in metalwork. https://www.museum.ie/en-ie/collections-research/collection/... .
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rbanffy
2 months ago
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The archeology museum in the same block is also a must-see
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raffraffraff
2 months ago
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There's also a pretty decent eatery!

Another amazing library, though one that you can't really access, is the Edward Worth library at Dr Steevens’ Hospital, beside Heuston train station.

https://edwardworthlibrary.ie/

He had collected the books over his lifetime and bequeathed the collection to the hospital, under conditions that were to result in the absolute protection of the books. The story of the collection's history is itself worth the visit, and the current librarians are always welcoming if you call in advance. I was at a lecture there last week, and they took great pains to tell everybody to come back.

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TRiG_Ireland
2 months ago
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The Chester Beatty Library has a much larger collection than is shown at any one time. Many sacred texts, but also much else, including some printed news-sheets from the French Revolution. And a lot of Chinese and Japanese stuff, including some gorgeous jade snuffboxes.
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gambiting
2 months ago
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I saw it in person few months ago, and well......it's weird. The quality of the caligraphy and drawings is such that when you see it in person...it's completely underwhelming. It just looks like a very high quality print - which obviously speaks volumes about the quality of penmanship of something that is so crazy old. But the presentation room where the pages were shown magnified and the library afterwards were(to me) 100x more interesting than the "main event". I just saw it, went "huh" and that was about it. I guess seeing Mona Lisa in person must be similar - hundreds of people trying to take a peek, and it's far away from you behind glass so you can't really appreciate the details.
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Isamu
2 months ago
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Opposite reaction from me. Every print seemed lackluster when I finally saw the original. Which is surprisingly smaller than expected. And the intricacies are incredibly tiny.

Something about the work is more vibrant in person. I found the same to be true about Da Vinci. In particular his silverpoint drawings can’t be reproduced well.

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rbanffy
2 months ago
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It’s a bit like looking at the sky with your own telescope after seeing the Hubble images. You need superhuman senses - such as the magnified images and the extensive explanations in the museum - to really appreciate some things.

The library is iconic. Too bad we can’t borrow the books it has without at least a tenure and a few PhDs in history and literature.

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lazyasciiart
2 months ago
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I did have pretty much exactly that reaction to the Mona Lisa, yes.
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rbanffy
2 months ago
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I live in Dublin and never heard of this. Must do it ASAP.

Now, how many HN’ers are here in Dublin? We might want to start a group on Meetup.com.

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CalRobert
2 months ago
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I was there for ten years but moved to the Netherlands. You might like the Irish tech community slack, though they’re not fans of this site.
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UniverseHacker
2 months ago
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I stayed at a dorm on campus for a week at Trinity, but the book was so popular I couldn’t bring myself to wait in the long line to see it… but wish I had.
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arethuza
2 months ago
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Speaking of things that are gorgeous and well worth a visit I can also strongly recommend Iona - one of the places where the Book of Kells may have been produced.

A bit out of the way and the weather isn't always perfect but on a nice day I think Iona is one of the most beautiful places in the world - and that's before considering it's remarkable history and religious significance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iona

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throw4847285
2 months ago
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I went to Iona a couple of months ago and had a spectacular time. Though the impression I got from the Abbey Museum was that the Book of Kells was definitely written solely on Iona. I suspected this might be slightly skewed, but that's OK. I understand having pride in a place like Iona.
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VagabundoP
2 months ago
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They have some gorgeous Asian exhibits as well from what I remember.
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onel
2 months ago
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+1 for Chester Beatty. It is such a gem of a museum
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s_dev
2 months ago
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The animated film 'The Secret of Kells' is great and well worth a watch. Far more accessible/relatable to modern audiences than this historical Bible that was dug up in a field in Kells. I'm glad it got a mention but the other guy is right -- the link should have been to the digitized book.
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bdz
2 months ago
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Contrary to everyone I think it was pretty mediocre. The significance of the book is barely covered and the contents of it are not mentioned at all. The story itself is dancing around the “message of the book” and how it prevails over everything (see the allegory with the abbey’s wall) but somehow they just never say it’s the four Gospels of the New Testament which are the most important texts of Christianity. If you don’t know what the Book of Kells _really is_ then what’s left from the film itself? Not so much just a generic fantasy story.
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noufalibrahim
2 months ago
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Yes. As someone who practices Western calligraphy, I expected a lot more about the book from the movie. It was mostly style kind of fable with the book as a prop.
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fullstop
2 months ago
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Have you played Pentiment?
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noufalibrahim
2 months ago
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No I haven't. Will check it out.
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fullstop
2 months ago
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You might find this interesting as well: https://lettermatic.com/custom/pentiment

I thoroughly enjoyed the game, but you may enjoy it even more if you're quite into western calligraphy. The characters "speak" in different lettering based on their education, profession, etc.

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AStonesThrow
2 months ago
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I took it to describe a more expansive history of Irish spirituality, how neopaganism is recovering the legends and traditions that Irish diaspora took with them to the rest of the world, or perhaps were forgotten across generations. How Ireland emerges as a post-Christian society, but remains embattled with culture wars and difficult relations with the UK.

The Gaeltacht today is not unlike that little monastic fortress at Kells.

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PetitPrince
2 months ago
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One thing I like about The Secret of Kells is some of a meta-joke: since the plot takes place in the Middle Ages, and perspective was not yet in fashion, there's no perspective at all in this movie. It's very in your face (just like the Wes Anderson's lateral tracking shots), but just as charming.
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CalRobert
2 months ago
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That studio is amazingly good. The Breadwinner is harrowing but fantastic.
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tzs
2 months ago
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Add Wolfwalkers to the list. It probably would have won the academy award for Best Animated Feature if that category wasn't a total joke.

(It's a joke category because all Academy members get to vote. There's no requirement that they have seen all the nominees, or that they have seen any of them.

A few years ago some animation trade magazine (I don't remember which one) surveyed Academy members after a year where a movie that most animation professionals thought would easily win lost to a movie they thought was good but clearly not as good.

What they found was that a significant fraction of voters don't watch animation, considering it to be just for kids. If they have young kids they vote for whatever movie the kids watched over and over. If they didn't have young kids they'd ask their young nieces or nephews or grandkids what cartoon they liked that year and vote for it. Or they would vote for the one they remembered seeing ads for).

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lemming
2 months ago
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The others in the Irish mythology series are really great too - Song of the Sea is my favourite. Great to watch with kids, but also can be enjoyed with no embarrassment by adults!
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rbanffy
2 months ago
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All three movies in the trilogy are absolute masterpieces.

Ireland is an interesting land. It’s easy to believe in magic after living here among the fairies and the little people for a couple years. They host the best parties.

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ubertaco
2 months ago
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I watched it for the first time a few hours ago, and did a Wikipedia dive about the Book of Kells. Flip over to HN and see this thread; what a weird convergence.
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UberFly
2 months ago
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Agreed. Really unique and beautifully done.
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hackernewds
2 months ago
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guy or girl*
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patrickdavey
2 months ago
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I went to college in Trinity and the Book of Kells is housed in the old library.

Once you've finished seeing the book, you head upstairs through the Long Room, and that place is just special (they used it as the hall of the jedi)

As a student there you could visit for free. I used to just go up and hang in the library for 10 mins or so a few times a year. Loved it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Trinity_College_D...

Edit: fix link

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SEJeff
2 months ago
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First name checks out :)

I promised a coworker up north a bit in Meath that one day I’d come visit him and got that chance about seven years ago. Along the way we did the tourist in Dublin thing and part of it was the trinity long room and book of kells. Amusingly, a cabbie was asking me what I loved about Dublin and I said the history. He asked what in specific and I told him that there is probably chewing gum on the ground older than the founding of the United States. He got super offended and told me they clean the streets in Ireland, but then I mentioned the Aran Islands, Newgrange, and the Drombeg Stone Circle… What is “old” in Ireland is 3000-5000 years old. What is “old” in the USA is a few hundred years old at best.

Such a lovely place and people.

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portaouflop
2 months ago
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Lots of old things/places in the US too if you don’t disregard native history.
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Amezarak
2 months ago
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If you are counting stone circles, it seems unfair not to count 5000 year old mounds in the US.
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SEJeff
2 months ago
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The Drombeg stone circle is like stone henge’s grandfather.
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badcppdev
2 months ago
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Dromberg looks great and Stonehenge is definitely far too crowded with tourists[0] but with respect to age Dromberg is considered to be 3000 years old [1] versus Stone henge being 5000 years old [2]

I will resist the temptation to joke about time travelling aliens

0 - Why do the tourists have so many Disney shirts, hats, and backpacks???

1 - https://www.tuatha.ie/drombeg-stone-circle/

2 - https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/stonehenge/...

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FearNotDaniel
2 months ago
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My attempt to answer question 0 - apart from the most obvious answer, that it's a global megabrand present in every culture that is connected with the global mainstram, so it's like asking why do so many tourists drink Coke and eat at McD's - underpinning a great deal of what Disney does creatively is a collective longing for myth, magic, mystery and timeless stories that reach back through the ages. People who like that kind of stuff (i.e. an awfully large percentage of humans) and who happen to be passing through that part of England will be inevitably drawn to those big ol' stones rising out of the mist...
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maccard
2 months ago
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I also did the same thing. I probably visited 30 times in the 5 years I was there. The postgraduate study room next door to it (disc shaped building between the old library and the front gate) is probably one of the neatest student spaces in the university, closely followed by the geography building behind it.
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Ovah
2 months ago
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Unfortunately, they recently removed most of the books from that hall due to conservation efforts. I didn't really give the feel or atmosphere of an old library.
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TRiG_Ireland
2 months ago
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I once had a class in a room just off the old library. I had to go into the Long Room and step over a rope at the end. Very cool.
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chefandy
2 months ago
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We had a big poster of the Long Room in the Harvard Law Library. (Employee, not student.) Gorgeous. Always looked at it walking past.

My only experience with the Book of Kells that age was working in an absolutely disgusting nightclub named after it. I was rather surprised to see how beautiful its namesake book was

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jeffbee
2 months ago
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Instead of the popup and affiliate-link-laden article, you could go right to it: https://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/concern/works/hm50tr726?lo...
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g40694
2 months ago
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the indignity of the entire experience is comedic, and we've come to accept it. the op article is empty aggregation, a little superficial bit of dopamine noise, that's exclusively parasitizing on actual content. the direct link is probably better, but it throws a CAPCHA for me, where I need to click on Indian men on motorcycles to teach an AI what a motorcycle is. sister comment is reporting that the underlying site is down anyway, despite the "protection" provided by the internet muscle services.

which makes one wonder, why even go looking at the book of kells, like, who among the hackernews readership will sit down with an iPad or other high resolution device to peruse the entirety of the book at leisure, inspecting the subtle details of the illumination, taking notes etc.

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mistrial9
2 months ago
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it is a treasure of culture, available to the general public. Support your local library.
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g40694
2 months ago
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I don't understand the point you're trying to make and how it relates to what I said.

the book of kell is available both as a facsimile from specialist publishers (/my/ local library has it in extended rotation) and as a 2006 dvd from trinity college library.

but I'm not even talking about that

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mistrial9
2 months ago
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> why even go looking at the book of kells ... etc
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g40694
2 months ago
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why even go looking at the book of kells is the sentiment about the deliberate versus knee jerk information consumption, which was prompted by the reflection on the levels of ugliness and indignity supporting the knew jerk consumption. it wasn't a comment on the value of book of kells, or the effort of making it available to the public.
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hackernewds
2 months ago
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I think you're being purposefully obtuse now. the Internet is a free resource
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rldjbpin
2 months ago
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senko
2 months ago
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... and be forced to complete a captcha before getting 503 service unavailable.
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mepian
2 months ago
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"The requested URL was rejected. Please consult with your administrator. Error 503 - Service Unavailable"
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secondcoming
2 months ago
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Someone's Sunday just got ruined
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mywacaday
2 months ago
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Haven't seen a hug of death in a while.
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Jordan-117
2 months ago
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This is a cool resource, but I'm side-eyeing them characterizing it as some new thing when this scan was uploaded more than ten years ago (as their own link to the college's archived blog post on it shows).
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pbhjpbhj
2 months ago
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Glad you said this as it saved me checking my memory.

I first came across the Book of Kells over 20 years ago and I swear photos/scans were available online of some pages even back then (one of the 'Xp' at least). But certainly thought it had already been made available online before (albeit in one of those annoying interfaces where it's all tiles to try and stop you downloading any of it).

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Jordan-117
2 months ago
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I think there was a black-and-white photocopy from the early 90s, but the full-color digital one (with an iPad app!) is circa 2013.
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fudged71
2 months ago
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> The pages, originally captured in 1990, “have recently been rescanned,” Trinity College Library writes, using state-of-the-art imaging technology. These new digital images offer the most accurate high-resolution images to date, providing an experience second only to viewing the book in person.”
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CosmicShadow
2 months ago
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I saw the real life Book of Kells earlier this year and it was so pristine and high quality it didn't look real, like seriously looked like a modern fancy reprint, it was a bit confusing!
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hackernewds
2 months ago
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anyone have a link? I couldn't find a good quality photo
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lihaciudaniel
2 months ago
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If you want more like these drawings , check wikisource

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Apoca...

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Modified3019
2 months ago
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Note the PDF file is ~414MB and 682 pages, so you’ll want to just download and then view, rather than try to load it in the browser for a quick look.
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spl757
2 months ago
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The error message "The requested URL was rejected. Please consult with your administrator." is from an F5 Networks Application Security Manager firewall and can usually be addessed by clearing certain cookies in your browser.

I was able to get it to load using Chrome with all cookies cleared, but it does appear to be getting the "hug of death" as well as mywacaday says in another comment.

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calibas
2 months ago
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I only see one cookie, for the captcha, and removing that just forces me to solve the captcha again.

The 503 error itself doesn't seem to be cookie related, looks like the site can't keep up with the kind of traffic they're getting.

Also, if clearing cookies prevents errors, it's likely related to caching. Depending on the server configuration, things like authentication cookies will cause the session to bypass caches for certain resources.

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UberFly
2 months ago
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I believe the book was stolen at one point and the gold covers were ripped off. It was eventually found buried. Close to being gone for good like so many other remarkable items.
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hackernewds
2 months ago
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How does it still look so modern and pristine then?
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TechDebtDevin
2 months ago
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The science behind restoration is pretty intense. It's almost certainly had a bunch of work done on it.
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Brajeshwar
2 months ago
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Is this a different one from the one I found at Global Grey’s Collection https://www.globalgreyebooks.com/book-of-kells-ebook.html

Global Grey was popular on HN a few years back, and I bought the whole collection.

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g40694
2 months ago
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the og scan of book of kells was done by a Swiss publisher in the early 90s. since you can't copyright a scan, and the book itself is in public domain, anyone can then take the scans (if they can get hands on the high dpi originals or whatever, or do a high dpi scan of the reproduction) and publish them as whatever they want. "the complete encyclopedia of human knowledge (only $99.99 if you call now)" "the illuminated authoritative book of kells (comes with your own one of a kind handmade Irish cross)" etc. you can get the scans themselves (afaiu its at matching dpi, if not the same format) from a 2006 trinity college dvd of book of kells.

the op is an announcement of the completed rescan effort, with modern technologies and modern dpis. with a companion iPad app and a website that have consumer grade renditions of those modern research grade scans.

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oliwarner
2 months ago
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> you can't copyright a scan

Why not? It's derivative but it's still work.

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g40694
2 months ago
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it's a statement of fact, so we can just leave it at that. but the explanation as I understand it and I'm not a lawyer, is that scan or a facsimile is a mechanism of reproduction, and the act of reproduction doesn't give you copyright. work, derivative work, original work, demonstration of originality have all precise definitions, but in laymen terms which is also my understanding, your derivative work has to be creative and original in its own right to have a copyright.
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rbanffy
2 months ago
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So, if you scan it but add some clever upscaling mechanism, dynamic color curves, hyperspectral data, texture capture detailing the 3D surface, and use all that through some perceptual integration to give you a better reproduction than just a mechanical scan, you might be entitled to not have your case thrown out of court immediately.
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KyleBrandt
2 months ago
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jll29
2 months ago
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"Work" as such is not protectable; it lacks the creative element that e.g. a translation of a book into another language exhibits.
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luma
2 months ago
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Presumably, because it isn’t transformative enough to constitute a derivative work. Otherwise, making a copy of free works would allow one to put those works back under copyright.
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einpoklum
2 months ago
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Why does the book begin with many pages which have long lists of what looks like Roman numbering but in another alphabet? i.e. same word but with more i's at the end? It's not actually text. Only later does any actual text begin.

Is it some form of a table of contents?

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badcppdev
2 months ago
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What do people think about the Copyright notices on the images? Can someone with knowledge of Irish law comment on how something so old can still be considered copyright? Is there separate rules for images of art in galleries?
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lionkor
2 months ago
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No knowledge on irish law, but the photo itself has copyright separate from the thing photographed
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criddell
2 months ago
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A simple photo of a page might not be copyrightable if it doesn't show a modicum of creativity.
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NoMoreNicksLeft
2 months ago
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I think they're alot like adding raw sewage to the soup at the salad bar, so that people don't steal soup. It probably works, and the most important thing about soup is that no one steals it. You wouldn't steal a medieval manuscript would you? It belongs to the world as a cultural treasure, but it doesn't belong to anyone IN the world.
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chrisweekly
2 months ago
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The animated film (same prod crew that made Song of the Sea) is excellent.
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Suppafly
2 months ago
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Was it not before? I had thought I had seen scanned pages of it online before.
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brcmthrowaway
2 months ago
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Whats the status on Voynich in 2024?
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squiffsquiff
2 months ago
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Error 503 - Service Unavailable
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